now what engine...T&L
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 46
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From: Wakefield Nebraska
now what engine...T&L
I'm looking for a new small block crate engine for my '74. I was looking at the 408 A-2 from T&L with 510 hp and 510 torque. This engine was in my price range and had the hp I wanted, but they recomended the A-1, which has 470 hp 500 torque, because it has more vacume since it's going in a vette. They would both cost me about $6k to have them complety turn key and shipped. I wanted something with 500 hp or a little more to match up with the new vettes and whatever else comes along. Now I'm wondering if i should just take a little more decrease in hp and go with a 383 and save a grand or what. I'm just wondering if I'm gonna be fully happy with an engine in the 400+ hp range rather than 500+ since I plan on having the new engine in my vette for quite some time. Any suggestions or comments would be great.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
go for the big hp version and figure out what you are going to do about brakes. I went for the milder 408 in an attempt to keep good vacuum and I still didn't have what I needed for proper brake operation at idle.
I went the manual brake conversion route and am quite satisfied with the brakes but I did use Wilwood calipers and master. Another good option would be the Hydroboost.
I went the manual brake conversion route and am quite satisfied with the brakes but I did use Wilwood calipers and master. Another good option would be the Hydroboost.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Wakefield Nebraska
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Wakefield Nebraska
go for the big hp version and figure out what you are going to do about brakes. I went for the milder 408 in an attempt to keep good vacuum and I still didn't have what I needed for proper brake operation at idle.
I went the manual brake conversion route and am quite satisfied with the brakes but I did use Wilwood calipers and master. Another good option would be the Hydroboost.
I went the manual brake conversion route and am quite satisfied with the brakes but I did use Wilwood calipers and master. Another good option would be the Hydroboost.
How much did the brake conversion run ya?
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: American Canyon Ca
Go Big Block. I spent 6 months debating small vs bigblock. Picked a 383, Big cam, 480hp. Fun to drive, smokes tires easily. But I want to go faster with less stress on engine. Working on a 502.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Even with a 400HP 383 I'd get safety loops - 30+ year old half- or driveshafts are not as strong as they were new....
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Michael S. Palmer
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
Your vacuum load is currently the brakes, the A/C, the tranny modulator (assuming a TH400), and the headlights. Brakes are easy $200 will get you a used hydrobooster & the fittings & pressure lines necessary. Already mentioned was the McSpeed headlight kit, but I'd bet you'll still have enough vacuum for the lights, although you might have to wait a minute or 2 for the vacuum reservoir to build up. The tranny modulator can be replaced by a cable unit. That leaves the A/C & a small vac pump can handle that.
Here's what I'd do, buy the A2 unit and then you can always change the cam if the you're not happy with the engine. With either unit (or even the 383) I'd have the tranny rebuilt, $400 - $600 is cheap insurance. Be sure the tranny shop knows the HP you are planning on. Replace the u-joints (non-greasables only) & you should be fine. With street tires you aren't going to hook up enough to break the rear end anyway.
Here's what I'd do, buy the A2 unit and then you can always change the cam if the you're not happy with the engine. With either unit (or even the 383) I'd have the tranny rebuilt, $400 - $600 is cheap insurance. Be sure the tranny shop knows the HP you are planning on. Replace the u-joints (non-greasables only) & you should be fine. With street tires you aren't going to hook up enough to break the rear end anyway.
Last edited by ratflinger; Apr 2, 2007 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Mentioned wrong engine - go BIG
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
I would definetly buy the 510/510 408". Get the motor you want the first time or you will regret it every time someone drills you on the street. Make it work. You can always add an additional vacuum storage canister if need be or go hydro boost. Its the same money for 40hp more.....the choice is obvious. Just make sure you get a GOOD stall converter to match the powerband of the engine and I would also rebuild the TH400, at least clutches/bands and a shift kit. Add a good tranny cooler also. Then the motor/tranny is done. Just don't beat on it TOO hard until you get the cash to go through the rear end/half shafts etc.
BTW I am also going with T&L, I am getting the 510/510 408" but I am going to use the AFR eliminator 195s and a smaller cam(232/236 or236/242) so it will make the same HP up top as a bigger cam but more HP in the low to mid. I am also going to run a TH400, stall converter and try it out with 3.08s at first, then I can still cruise 75mph on the freeway at 3000rpms. If its TOO much of a dog outta the hole, I will go with 3.55s when I rebuild the rear.
Pay attention to your hood clearance with the air gap intake they use on the 408"
BTW I am also going with T&L, I am getting the 510/510 408" but I am going to use the AFR eliminator 195s and a smaller cam(232/236 or236/242) so it will make the same HP up top as a bigger cam but more HP in the low to mid. I am also going to run a TH400, stall converter and try it out with 3.08s at first, then I can still cruise 75mph on the freeway at 3000rpms. If its TOO much of a dog outta the hole, I will go with 3.55s when I rebuild the rear.
Pay attention to your hood clearance with the air gap intake they use on the 408"
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 46
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From: Wakefield Nebraska
I would definetly buy the 510/510 408". Get the motor you want the first time or you will regret it every time someone drills you on the street. Make it work. You can always add an additional vacuum storage canister if need be or go hydro boost. Its the same money for 40hp more.....the choice is obvious. Just make sure you get a GOOD stall converter to match the powerband of the engine and I would also rebuild the TH400, at least clutches/bands and a shift kit. Add a good tranny cooler also. Then the motor/tranny is done. Just don't beat on it TOO hard until you get the cash to go through the rear end/half shafts etc.
BTW I am also going with T&L, I am getting the 510/510 408" but I am going to use the AFR eliminator 195s and a smaller cam(232/236 or236/242) so it will make the same HP up top as a bigger cam but more HP in the low to mid. I am also going to run a TH400, stall converter and try it out with 3.08s at first, then I can still cruise 75mph on the freeway at 3000rpms. If its TOO much of a dog outta the hole, I will go with 3.55s when I rebuild the rear.
Pay attention to your hood clearance with the air gap intake they use on the 408"
BTW I am also going with T&L, I am getting the 510/510 408" but I am going to use the AFR eliminator 195s and a smaller cam(232/236 or236/242) so it will make the same HP up top as a bigger cam but more HP in the low to mid. I am also going to run a TH400, stall converter and try it out with 3.08s at first, then I can still cruise 75mph on the freeway at 3000rpms. If its TOO much of a dog outta the hole, I will go with 3.55s when I rebuild the rear.
Pay attention to your hood clearance with the air gap intake they use on the 408"
I was hoping to get the engine and hooker side pipes and hold off on the rest to next year. I could handle the light conversion and maybe a tranny too. The ac doesn't even work at the time and I figure I can go another year without it.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions, keep them coming.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
I am not sure if the air gap will fit under your hood or not. Do a search. For sure you will have to get an LT1 drop base air cleaner.
As for the engine/tranny, I am sure you could just stick a decent converter in your stock tranny and run it as is. If it craps out, it craps out, worry about it then. I am sure it would be ok but it is worth freshening it up.
I am seriously thinking about the 200R4 after reading what Oliver said. I called art carr and you can get the 800hp TH200R4, 9.5" custom stalled converter, dipstick and tube, and a tranny cooler for $2300 shipped. Not only do you get steeper gearing and an overdrive, you also get the lockup feature which is good for the freeway. Not to mention it eats up 20 less HP then a TH400. Then with the overdrive you can run 3.73s in the rear and not scream down the highway.
Food for thought.
As for the engine/tranny, I am sure you could just stick a decent converter in your stock tranny and run it as is. If it craps out, it craps out, worry about it then. I am sure it would be ok but it is worth freshening it up.
I am seriously thinking about the 200R4 after reading what Oliver said. I called art carr and you can get the 800hp TH200R4, 9.5" custom stalled converter, dipstick and tube, and a tranny cooler for $2300 shipped. Not only do you get steeper gearing and an overdrive, you also get the lockup feature which is good for the freeway. Not to mention it eats up 20 less HP then a TH400. Then with the overdrive you can run 3.73s in the rear and not scream down the highway.
Food for thought.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
If you are wanting more hp, then i would go with the 510 hp setup as you probably won't be happy otherwise. I did a 400 hp 383 a long time ago as a compromise from what I really wanted (454 setup) and I really have never been happy with it. Now I'm going with a 427 sbc and I hope I'm happy, but getting worried already (too late, it's ordered).
Am already thinking about adding a Vortech to it in the near future, lol.
Am already thinking about adding a Vortech to it in the near future, lol.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Wakefield Nebraska
If you are wanting more hp, then i would go with the 510 hp setup as you probably won't be happy otherwise. I did a 400 hp 383 a long time ago as a compromise from what I really wanted (454 setup) and I really have never been happy with it. Now I'm going with a 427 sbc and I hope I'm happy, but getting worried already (too late, it's ordered).
Am already thinking about adding a Vortech to it in the near future, lol.
Am already thinking about adding a Vortech to it in the near future, lol.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
From: Salina Kansas
Yeah, those are the things that kept me going in the sb direction as well. Nice to know that the new engine will go in exactly the same as the old engine came out. No bracket changes needed or anything. I'll have around $9k in my 427 setup (not counting the induction and headers) so I probably could have gone with a crate 502 or 509 setup for the same money and similar hp range (more tq though), just more weight is all.
I also looked at a 595 hp Shafiroff racing, pump gas, 434 crate motor (no induction or headers) for 9k. They even dyno and warranty their motors. Decided to go local and give the local speed shop some business instead.
I probably should have gone with a 408 setup, that is really nice bang for the buck.
I also looked at a 595 hp Shafiroff racing, pump gas, 434 crate motor (no induction or headers) for 9k. They even dyno and warranty their motors. Decided to go local and give the local speed shop some business instead.
I probably should have gone with a 408 setup, that is really nice bang for the buck.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 7
From: Adelaide South Australia
I too have gone through the same dilemna.....
wanting "big block"-like performance in a small block package....
I hope I've made the right decision- gone for a 460HP 383 from engine factory. T&L could supply a 408 for about the same money, but I live a long way away from USA, and opted for a supplier with a local agent.
Peak HP is easy to match in a small block, but it's the grunt down low which is difficult to match with a small block when compared to a big block.
For those that do have 383 strokers.....
Is the low end grunt in a 383 a big improvement over a 350?
or is it over rated?
wanting "big block"-like performance in a small block package....
I hope I've made the right decision- gone for a 460HP 383 from engine factory. T&L could supply a 408 for about the same money, but I live a long way away from USA, and opted for a supplier with a local agent.
Peak HP is easy to match in a small block, but it's the grunt down low which is difficult to match with a small block when compared to a big block.
For those that do have 383 strokers.....
Is the low end grunt in a 383 a big improvement over a 350?
or is it over rated?
