Aluminum Radiator options?
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,593
Likes: 631
From: Brighton
The radiator of my yellow '68 is leaking and I think that it's time for a aluminum one.. I'm thinking in using the same universal Griffin radiator that I have on my '68 Vette race car. That radiator is 27.5 x 19 and fits perfectly. I have the one with 1 1/4 inch rows on my race car and might get the one with 1 inch rows for my yellow '68..
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
Are there any other options of inexpensive aluminum radiators that will fit a '68 4-speed Vette?
P.S. It has to be about the same size and the lower outlet on the radiator has to clear the sway bar.. The Griffin piece clears the sway bar as the lower outlet sits a little higher than on other universal radiators..
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
Are there any other options of inexpensive aluminum radiators that will fit a '68 4-speed Vette?
P.S. It has to be about the same size and the lower outlet on the radiator has to clear the sway bar.. The Griffin piece clears the sway bar as the lower outlet sits a little higher than on other universal radiators..
Olivier,
I realize you are not in the market for one of our radiators and I am not here to sell you one. I"m posting because it amazes me how much advise one can receive before the application is actually defined. You see, you never said if this was a BB car or SB, and the radiators used on these were totally different. Since so many people modify the original configuration, we have to ask the same questions twice because we want to insure that the person ordering the radiator gets one that fits when it gets there. Often I am told "the car is a BB" and when they get the radiator and it doesn't fit, then they tell me it was orignally a SB. So now I ask the question different. What engine do you have now? Was that the original equiptment? Is it a manual or automatic? Was it built that way originally. Has the core support ever been changed, etc, etc. The reason it think this stuff is important is no one here knows any of this information. 1968 core supports are unique to 68's and there are no reproductions available. Most people replace the core supports with 69 support and modify the car to get them to fit. I'm going to bet this happened on you race car, because the 68 used a 22.5" core and the 69 used a 27.5" on the BB. Here is the way 68's were equipt originally
68SB no air 4spd = GM aluminum radiator 3155316 with surge tank (A)
68SB AC and/or Auto = 22.5 Copper/brass no surge tank (B)
68BB All = same one as above C/B 22.5" (B)
The stock SB aluminum radiator looked like this:
The stock SB auto/AC or BB radiator look like this:
None of the universal radiators are going to fit either one of this mountings, if you still have the orginal mounting. Again, not looking for a sale, just trying to educate. C3ers often forget that many radiators were made during the record 15 year run and one answer doesn't fit all. I did see that BB hood on the yellow car, but as I said, that means nothing and I did see the 200R4 manual, obviously not the factory. So, do you see what I do everyday?
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; Apr 6, 2007 at 12:13 AM.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582
Likes: 3
From: Glen Allen (Richmond) Virginia
Olivier,
I realize you are not in the market for one of our radiators and I am not here to sell you one. I"m posting because it amazes me how much advise one can receive before the application is actually defined. You see, you never said if this was a BB car or SB, and the radiators used on these were totally different. Since so many people modify the original configuration, we have to ask the same questions twice because we want to insure that the person ordering the radiator gets one that fits when it gets there. Often I am told "the car is a BB" and when they get the radiator and it doesn't fit, then they tell me it was orignally a SB. So now I ask the question different. What engine do you have now? Was that the original equiptment? Is it a manual or automatic? Was it built that way originally. Has the core support ever been changed, etc, etc. The reason it think this stuff is important is no one here knows any of this information. 1968 core supports are unique to 68's and there are no reproductions available. Most people replace the core supports with 69 support and modify the car to get them to fit. I'm going to bet this happened on you race car, because the 68 used a 22.5" core and the 69 used a 27.5" on the BB. Here is the way 68's were equipt originally
68SB no air 4spd = GM aluminum radiator 3155316 with surge tank (A)
68SB AC and/or Auto = 22.5 Copper/brass no surge tank (B)
68BB All = same one as above C/B 22.5" (B)
The stock SB aluminum radiator looked like this:
The stock SB auto/AC or BB radiator look like this:
None of the universal radiators are going to fit either one of this mountings, if you still have the orginal mounting. Again, not looking for a sale, just trying to educate. C3ers often forget that many radiators were made during the record 15 year run and one answer doesn't fit all. I did see that BB hood on the yellow car, but as I said, that means nothing and I did see the 200R4 manual, obviously not the factory. So, do you see what I do everyday?
I realize you are not in the market for one of our radiators and I am not here to sell you one. I"m posting because it amazes me how much advise one can receive before the application is actually defined. You see, you never said if this was a BB car or SB, and the radiators used on these were totally different. Since so many people modify the original configuration, we have to ask the same questions twice because we want to insure that the person ordering the radiator gets one that fits when it gets there. Often I am told "the car is a BB" and when they get the radiator and it doesn't fit, then they tell me it was orignally a SB. So now I ask the question different. What engine do you have now? Was that the original equiptment? Is it a manual or automatic? Was it built that way originally. Has the core support ever been changed, etc, etc. The reason it think this stuff is important is no one here knows any of this information. 1968 core supports are unique to 68's and there are no reproductions available. Most people replace the core supports with 69 support and modify the car to get them to fit. I'm going to bet this happened on you race car, because the 68 used a 22.5" core and the 69 used a 27.5" on the BB. Here is the way 68's were equipt originally
68SB no air 4spd = GM aluminum radiator 3155316 with surge tank (A)
68SB AC and/or Auto = 22.5 Copper/brass no surge tank (B)
68BB All = same one as above C/B 22.5" (B)
The stock SB aluminum radiator looked like this:
The stock SB auto/AC or BB radiator look like this:
None of the universal radiators are going to fit either one of this mountings, if you still have the orginal mounting. Again, not looking for a sale, just trying to educate. C3ers often forget that many radiators were made during the record 15 year run and one answer doesn't fit all. I did see that BB hood on the yellow car, but as I said, that means nothing and I did see the 200R4 manual, obviously not the factory. So, do you see what I do everyday?
Dan Osborne
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,743
Likes: 1,385
I put a Summit universal radiator in my 68 SBC....
no big deal, a little fabrication, a little fitting...it's all good; after all it's only metal that we're cutting up.
I used a 77 Corvette upper radiator hose, and you can use a 1990 Ford Bronco lower radiator hose.
The biggest aluminum radiator I could squeeze/fabricate between the rails was the 28" by 19" unit. I also bought their radiator mounting bracket kit since it was cheap....had to modify them anyway, so I'm not sure it was worth it, but that was easy too.
Lowering the sway bar would probably make the lower radiator hose path more gentle.
I used a 77 Corvette upper radiator hose, and you can use a 1990 Ford Bronco lower radiator hose.
The biggest aluminum radiator I could squeeze/fabricate between the rails was the 28" by 19" unit. I also bought their radiator mounting bracket kit since it was cheap....had to modify them anyway, so I'm not sure it was worth it, but that was easy too.
Lowering the sway bar would probably make the lower radiator hose path more gentle.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
He does that all the time, ask for advice, when advice is given he turns it down because he knows it better anyway..I figure, why start the thread at all? That's why I hardly ever reply...because I know it's a waste of time.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Olivier,
I realize you are not in the market for one of our radiators and I am not here to sell you one. I"m posting because it amazes me how much advise one can receive before the application is actually defined. You see, you never said if this was a BB car or SB, and the radiators used on these were totally different. Since so many people modify the original configuration, we have to ask the same questions twice because we want to insure that the person ordering the radiator gets one that fits when it gets there. Often I am told "the car is a BB" and when they get the radiator and it doesn't fit, then they tell me it was orignally a SB. So now I ask the question different. What engine do you have now? Was that the original equiptment? Is it a manual or automatic? Was it built that way originally. Has the core support ever been changed, etc, etc. The reason it think this stuff is important is no one here knows any of this information. 1968 core supports are unique to 68's and there are no reproductions available. Most people replace the core supports with 69 support and modify the car to get them to fit. I'm going to bet this happened on you race car, because the 68 used a 22.5" core and the 69 used a 27.5" on the BB. Here is the way 68's were equipt originally
68SB no air 4spd = GM aluminum radiator 3155316 with surge tank (A)
68SB AC and/or Auto = 22.5 Copper/brass no surge tank (B)
68BB All = same one as above C/B 22.5" (B)
The stock SB aluminum radiator looked like this:
The stock SB auto/AC or BB radiator look like this:
None of the universal radiators are going to fit either one of this mountings, if you still have the orginal mounting. Again, not looking for a sale, just trying to educate. C3ers often forget that many radiators were made during the record 15 year run and one answer doesn't fit all. I did see that BB hood on the yellow car, but as I said, that means nothing and I did see the 200R4 manual, obviously not the factory. So, do you see what I do everyday?
I realize you are not in the market for one of our radiators and I am not here to sell you one. I"m posting because it amazes me how much advise one can receive before the application is actually defined. You see, you never said if this was a BB car or SB, and the radiators used on these were totally different. Since so many people modify the original configuration, we have to ask the same questions twice because we want to insure that the person ordering the radiator gets one that fits when it gets there. Often I am told "the car is a BB" and when they get the radiator and it doesn't fit, then they tell me it was orignally a SB. So now I ask the question different. What engine do you have now? Was that the original equiptment? Is it a manual or automatic? Was it built that way originally. Has the core support ever been changed, etc, etc. The reason it think this stuff is important is no one here knows any of this information. 1968 core supports are unique to 68's and there are no reproductions available. Most people replace the core supports with 69 support and modify the car to get them to fit. I'm going to bet this happened on you race car, because the 68 used a 22.5" core and the 69 used a 27.5" on the BB. Here is the way 68's were equipt originally
68SB no air 4spd = GM aluminum radiator 3155316 with surge tank (A)
68SB AC and/or Auto = 22.5 Copper/brass no surge tank (B)
68BB All = same one as above C/B 22.5" (B)
The stock SB aluminum radiator looked like this:
The stock SB auto/AC or BB radiator look like this:
None of the universal radiators are going to fit either one of this mountings, if you still have the orginal mounting. Again, not looking for a sale, just trying to educate. C3ers often forget that many radiators were made during the record 15 year run and one answer doesn't fit all. I did see that BB hood on the yellow car, but as I said, that means nothing and I did see the 200R4 manual, obviously not the factory. So, do you see what I do everyday?
The car was originally a manual transmission small block (the hood is a bb hood as the previous owner changed it to a big block hood) but has the radiator like the one you posted as a big block or small block auto radiator... Might not be the original radiator.. I don't know. Nothing on the car except for the body and most of the interior is original.. The measurements of the radiator are 28 x 19 x 3 (overall width... the core is probably 22.5 inch wide) and the univeral ones that I'm looking at are 27.5 x 19 x 3 (overall width) which is a pretty close fit. My other '68 (the race '68) in which I installed one of the universal ones was originally a 4-speed big block car (427/390) and it had the same radiator like my small block '68. Like I said. I have no idea if it's the correct radiator.. Someone might have changed to a big block radiator at one point. It's a correct Harrison radiator..
My race '68 was a early '68 (built Dec. '67) and my yellow '68 is a late '68 (23xxx)
Neither my race '68 or my yellow '68 had a surge tank when I got them.. Neither of my '68 were A/C cars. The race '68 was a 427/390 car with no other options and the yellow '68 was a 350/300 car with no other options. They were both 4-speed cars and have the fixed 4-speed crossmember.
Last edited by GrandSportC3; Apr 6, 2007 at 08:17 AM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Tom, I bought a big block radiator from your company in February at the NCRS meet in Orlando. The unit that I bought had the dual spals built in along with the temp sender made in the radiator. The unit was awesum! I did add dual spal variable controls wired independently. I love your radiator and my 468 cubic inch is running at a max of 185 degrees.
Dan Osborne
Dan Osborne
I'm just a person that uses NO Corvette specific parts on my cars as long as I can make universal/chevy parts fit (when replacing old parts). Neither water pump, pulleys, fans or anything else on my cars is corvette specific..
For example: High Flow Corvette Water Pump $169
High Flow Chevy Water Pump $50 - $80
Both move the same amount of water but the Corvette pump has a different size fan mount cone (or whatever it's called). That means that you can't use the stock clutch fan but any other chevy fan will fit.
Non-Corvette specific parts are just cheaper.
I don't care for originality or original like looks as my car is a driver and not a show car or original car..
Last edited by GrandSportC3; Apr 6, 2007 at 07:35 AM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
My question also wasn't "Should I use a univeral or direct fit radiator?"
It's like I'm asking where I can find the cheapest Geo Metro and people are telling me that I should rather get a Corvette instead a Geo Metro as it's a better car.. I know that a Vette is a better car than a Geo Metro (or in the specific case a Tom's or factory correct radiator is probably a better radiator than a universal piece) but that was not what I'm asking for.. I'm asking a specific question and getting recommendations that what I'm looking for is not what I should be getting.. That's not what I asked.
I've proven many times that there are different ways of getting results.. I know what I'm doing and I've presented results time after time. For example...most people suggested not to run a TH200R4 with my last setup as they said that it won't hold up.. 3 years and 200 passes later, the tranny was still running perfect and I was pulling wheelies on every launch even though peope told me that it'll blow up etc. etc.. That's just one of many examples....
Last edited by GrandSportC3; Apr 6, 2007 at 07:59 AM.
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Verdad Gallardo
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From: Orange Park Florida
Oliver, I lost track, IF the car you need the rad for is a SB car, I maybe able to use what I have in my '72, more or less stock, depending on your rad mounts....MY support is... 27.5 inches wide center to center on the upper support brackets, and the rad core is 19"? high as I recall...damn close far as I can tell in the car.....
the rad I have in there is from a V8 350 '89 Camaro....one row aluminum, with plastic tanks....I"m sure the Camaros didn't have inherant cooling problems was my logic in buying it for like 160 bux from a rad supply house nearby....in stock item....I had a overheating problem under certain circumstances..ie....100f days, off the freeway to stand in traffic with the a/c on....about a mile of lights and stop/go...figger temps off that road at 140f easy, lack of breeze, no speed, all the cars jambed up...and engine would hit 220f easy...the fan I had was 1700 cfm according to Tom, and it was from an '87 vette, mounted in original '72 shroud.....well this spring/winter, it's outta there and Tom's dual spals are in place, all mounted up and shrouded in tight to the rad mount, NOT the Radiator, works like a charm, and the airflow is about double what it was before, so I know even when it's 100f out there, it should be ok....I sure other threads will pop up to reminde me to post about this, as they do every damn summer....sharks and overheating.....I"m sure Tom has stocked up on fans and shrouds, and rads for the coming season...i'ts that global warming,you know.....
sunspots.....
the rad I have in there is from a V8 350 '89 Camaro....one row aluminum, with plastic tanks....I"m sure the Camaros didn't have inherant cooling problems was my logic in buying it for like 160 bux from a rad supply house nearby....in stock item....I had a overheating problem under certain circumstances..ie....100f days, off the freeway to stand in traffic with the a/c on....about a mile of lights and stop/go...figger temps off that road at 140f easy, lack of breeze, no speed, all the cars jambed up...and engine would hit 220f easy...the fan I had was 1700 cfm according to Tom, and it was from an '87 vette, mounted in original '72 shroud.....well this spring/winter, it's outta there and Tom's dual spals are in place, all mounted up and shrouded in tight to the rad mount, NOT the Radiator, works like a charm, and the airflow is about double what it was before, so I know even when it's 100f out there, it should be ok....I sure other threads will pop up to reminde me to post about this, as they do every damn summer....sharks and overheating.....I"m sure Tom has stocked up on fans and shrouds, and rads for the coming season...i'ts that global warming,you know.....
sunspots.....
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Oliver, I lost track, IF the car you need the rad for is a SB car, I maybe able to use what I have in my '72, more or less stock, depending on your rad mounts....MY support is... 27.5 inches wide center to center on the upper support brackets, and the rad core is 19"? high as I recall...damn close far as I can tell in the car.....
the rad I have in there is from a V8 350 '89 Camaro....one row aluminum, with plastic tanks....I"m sure the Camaros didn't have inherant cooling problems was my logic in buying it for like 160 bux from a rad supply house nearby....in stock item....I had a overheating problem under certain circumstances..ie....100f days, off the freeway to stand in traffic with the a/c on....about a mile of lights and stop/go...figger temps off that road at 140f easy, lack of breeze, no speed, all the cars jambed up...and engine would hit 220f easy...the fan I had was 1700 cfm according to Tom, and it was from an '87 vette, mounted in original '72 shroud.....well this spring/winter, it's outta there and Tom's dual spals are in place, all mounted up and shrouded in tight to the rad mount, NOT the Radiator, works like a charm, and the airflow is about double what it was before, so I know even when it's 100f out there, it should be ok....I sure other threads will pop up to reminde me to post about this, as they do every damn summer....sharks and overheating.....I"m sure Tom has stocked up on fans and shrouds, and rads for the coming season...i'ts that global warming,you know.....
sunspots.....
the rad I have in there is from a V8 350 '89 Camaro....one row aluminum, with plastic tanks....I"m sure the Camaros didn't have inherant cooling problems was my logic in buying it for like 160 bux from a rad supply house nearby....in stock item....I had a overheating problem under certain circumstances..ie....100f days, off the freeway to stand in traffic with the a/c on....about a mile of lights and stop/go...figger temps off that road at 140f easy, lack of breeze, no speed, all the cars jambed up...and engine would hit 220f easy...the fan I had was 1700 cfm according to Tom, and it was from an '87 vette, mounted in original '72 shroud.....well this spring/winter, it's outta there and Tom's dual spals are in place, all mounted up and shrouded in tight to the rad mount, NOT the Radiator, works like a charm, and the airflow is about double what it was before, so I know even when it's 100f out there, it should be ok....I sure other threads will pop up to reminde me to post about this, as they do every damn summer....sharks and overheating.....I"m sure Tom has stocked up on fans and shrouds, and rads for the coming season...i'ts that global warming,you know.....
sunspots.....
Cooling has never been a problem with that car as the engine is pretty mild.... and I'm also running pure water& water wetter..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
... but just so this can't be taken as simply piling-on ... my suggestion is Northern (proven, no epoxy & nice $). As TD says, none of us knows how well it'll fit yours ... but you can make it fit ... or your mechanic can.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
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From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Does anyone have a link to "Northern" products?
I really wouldn't want to do too many modifications to make it fit.. so it would be great to hear from someone that actually used one of those...
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Race Director
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my last reply was towards jackson
but...but...you have a flip front, so in all reality you do not need the inner fenders and the rad frame to hold them up, have you ever thought about buying a radiator and having a neat frame made that you can use to bolt it down with and do away with all the stock stuff there???
but...but...you have a flip front, so in all reality you do not need the inner fenders and the rad frame to hold them up, have you ever thought about buying a radiator and having a neat frame made that you can use to bolt it down with and do away with all the stock stuff there???
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
my last reply was towards jackson
but...but...you have a flip front, so in all reality you do not need the inner fenders and the rad frame to hold them up, have you ever thought about buying a radiator and having a neat frame made that you can use to bolt it down with and do away with all the stock stuff there???
but...but...you have a flip front, so in all reality you do not need the inner fenders and the rad frame to hold them up, have you ever thought about buying a radiator and having a neat frame made that you can use to bolt it down with and do away with all the stock stuff there???
The radiator that I'm looking to buy is NOT for the race car.. It's for my other '68 Vert..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku
AFAIK Summit never sold Northern under Northern name ... same goes for most "real" race suppliers (ie lefthander sells their house brand Titan radiator but it's a Northern).
-edit- http://www.northernfactory.com/HP/default.asp
at least half the circle track cars around here run Northern ... I've put several in street vettes ... But neither me nor anyone else can tell you EXACTLY how to fit a universal/race rad into YOUR car.
AFAIK Summit never sold Northern under Northern name ... same goes for most "real" race suppliers (ie lefthander sells their house brand Titan radiator but it's a Northern).
-edit- http://www.northernfactory.com/HP/default.asp
at least half the circle track cars around here run Northern ... I've put several in street vettes ... But neither me nor anyone else can tell you EXACTLY how to fit a universal/race rad into YOUR car.
Last edited by jackson; Apr 6, 2007 at 11:31 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Around here, fabrications aren't cheap and I have little to no fabrication skills or tools... I only spend $ on things that make me go faster. I spend as little money as needed on anything that does not help making my car faster.. I look at $$ spent for ET reduced..the most cost effective way to go fast.. I'm spending over $10k on the engine that I'm having built for the race car
The radiator that I'm looking to buy is NOT for the race car.. It's for my other '68 Vert..
The radiator that I'm looking to buy is NOT for the race car.. It's for my other '68 Vert..
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku
AFAIK Summit never sold Northern under Northern name ... same goes for most "real" race suppliers (ie lefthander sells their house brand Titan radiator but it's a Northern).
AFAIK Summit never sold Northern under Northern name ... same goes for most "real" race suppliers (ie lefthander sells their house brand Titan radiator but it's a Northern).
I haven't seen anyone who advertises them as Northern radiators. I have seen small speed shops at swap meets sell them as generic aluminum radiators...still have the Northern stamping.
