Transmission Opinions?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Clymer PA
Transmission Opinions?
I am currently running a Borg Warner Super T10 transmission, and will be running it with the big block until I have enough money to upgrade. My major concern with the T10 is going to be will it hold up to the power of the big block? My thinking is no. Basically I'm going to take it easy with the big block until I have the money for a stronger transmission (going to be a manual tranny). I currently have a Turbo400 laying around should something happen to the T10 before I have enough money for a transmission.
So what manual transmission do you recommend? I was thinking M22 rock-crusher....would a M21 hold up? Ideally I'd like to have a Richmond 6 speed but that's way out of my league. I'm looking for a tranny in the ball park of $1000-$1500. What do you guys think?
So what manual transmission do you recommend? I was thinking M22 rock-crusher....would a M21 hold up? Ideally I'd like to have a Richmond 6 speed but that's way out of my league. I'm looking for a tranny in the ball park of $1000-$1500. What do you guys think?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Forked River NJ
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
I think with the power you are making the Borg Warner or Muncie would hold up/ If you are going with slicks and plan on dumping the clutch at 5000 rpm I don't think it will hold. The Tremac seems to be holding up to a lot of healthy motors here on the forum. Monty is running a lot of HP with the Tremac and it is holding up. It is about 1800 dollars a little over your budget but it would work.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
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Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
"My major concern with the T10 is going to be will it hold up to the power of the big block? My thinking is no."
Your thinking is wrong. The Super T10 is a superb transmission.
Your thinking is wrong. The Super T10 is a superb transmission.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Regina Saskatchewan, Canada.
Re: Transmission Opinions? (45ACP)
Don't worry about the T-10. Nascar uses them. I'd be way more worried about the diff exploding. Manual transmissions are alot harder on parts than an automatic and torque transfer through fluid is smoother than through your left foot. Keep away from slicks for now and things should stay tight within you're drivetrain, including the T-10. :)
Melting Slicks
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From: WANTED: '68 rear valance with b/u light assemblies IM, e-mail, or PM me here. Thanks!
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
Give and take either way. I’d keep the 4-speed… but I know how to speed shift and never broke a Muncie doing so. Just invest in a quality clutch and bellhousing (I’ve seen what “grenaded” clutch can do to a car and a person’s foot)… this is assuming you really get the 500+ hp you are looking for.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,286
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From: San Jose California
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
Bence,
I had a real ST-10 (with an iron case) and believe it is at least as strong as the M22 Rock Crusher. The new ones made by Richmond come only in aluminum, but I'm sure they are also very strong. My ROD 6 speed I'm using with my big block is also made of aluminum and I'm not losing any sleep over it.
What I really loved was having a 2.64 first gear instead of the 2.20. Big blocks have a wider torque curve than small blocks and don't really need a close ratio transmission. Like stated earlier by others, NASCAR uses them. It's one of the best 4 speed transmissions made, count yourself fortunate for having one!
Chuck
I had a real ST-10 (with an iron case) and believe it is at least as strong as the M22 Rock Crusher. The new ones made by Richmond come only in aluminum, but I'm sure they are also very strong. My ROD 6 speed I'm using with my big block is also made of aluminum and I'm not losing any sleep over it.
What I really loved was having a 2.64 first gear instead of the 2.20. Big blocks have a wider torque curve than small blocks and don't really need a close ratio transmission. Like stated earlier by others, NASCAR uses them. It's one of the best 4 speed transmissions made, count yourself fortunate for having one!
Chuck
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
I can not see going without an overdrive. With descent gears and no overdrive that big block will be screeming down the highway. The Tremec will stand alot more then the rest of your drive train. It also has a 3.27 1st gear. Power shifting is hard on a transmission. I have a 11 second nitrous mustang with slicks and it has never broken a T5 but I don't power shift.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Clymer PA
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
See that's the thing. I don't ever plan to put slicks on my car and I will not be power shifting it. I do plan on going through the gears as quickly as possible down at the stip though, but no power shifting. I won't be doing any high RPM clutch dumps either, I'll probably "baby" it out of the hole so as to not "shock the driveline." I will be purchasing a Center Force Dual Friction Clutch and a Lakewood Scatter-Proof Bellhousing (I've become pretty attached to my feet :) ).
As for the rear end, I'm investing in a freshly built 3.70 rear end out of a '69 Corvette. Should the rear end decide to break for some unforeseen reason ;) it won't be my original rear end...and I'll have the 3.36 as a spare rear end.
My tires are going to be a little larger than normal (275/60/15s Out Back) but I can't see it hooking up hard enough to break something. Overdrive would be nice but with my tires and the 3.70 gears I'll be taching about 2600 RPMs at 60mph...which is what I currently tach with my 3.36.
As for the rear end, I'm investing in a freshly built 3.70 rear end out of a '69 Corvette. Should the rear end decide to break for some unforeseen reason ;) it won't be my original rear end...and I'll have the 3.36 as a spare rear end.
My tires are going to be a little larger than normal (275/60/15s Out Back) but I can't see it hooking up hard enough to break something. Overdrive would be nice but with my tires and the 3.70 gears I'll be taching about 2600 RPMs at 60mph...which is what I currently tach with my 3.36.
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Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Roxbury NJ
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
Bence, do you really think you'll keep to 60 mph all the time? I know I can't ;) Unfortunately, my BB is running around 3000 at 70 with 3:55 gears and 235/60 tires, and I think it's too fast. IMO, 3:70 is high for a 1:1 4th gear trans.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,286
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From: San Jose California
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
Bence,
If you have the wide ratio ST-10 like I did, the 3.36 gears would be perfect. A 2.64 first gear with a 3.36 rear gear equals a M22 close ratio Muncie with a 4.03 rear gear. You would be able to light up the tires at will in first and probably much of second with your big block. Why do you need even more leverage with yet lower gears? For the 1/4 mile, Your engine should put you in the low 100's at the traps. The 3.36 will let you use ALL of the first 3 gears.
With the 3.70's you will probably have to shift to 4th at the end for a very brief use of 4th gear. Without slicks, 1st gear will give you serious traction problems and slower times PLUS the time need to shift into a too tall 4th gear will also cost you time especially if you are not power shifting. I really believe the 3.36 would be faster 1/4 mile gears for a street class racer.
The 3.36 are great all around gears that still give you bragging rights of a 140 top end. Much less and even a Honda Accord will beat you on an open road. My ego wouldn't stand for that :(
Chuck
If you have the wide ratio ST-10 like I did, the 3.36 gears would be perfect. A 2.64 first gear with a 3.36 rear gear equals a M22 close ratio Muncie with a 4.03 rear gear. You would be able to light up the tires at will in first and probably much of second with your big block. Why do you need even more leverage with yet lower gears? For the 1/4 mile, Your engine should put you in the low 100's at the traps. The 3.36 will let you use ALL of the first 3 gears.
With the 3.70's you will probably have to shift to 4th at the end for a very brief use of 4th gear. Without slicks, 1st gear will give you serious traction problems and slower times PLUS the time need to shift into a too tall 4th gear will also cost you time especially if you are not power shifting. I really believe the 3.36 would be faster 1/4 mile gears for a street class racer.
The 3.36 are great all around gears that still give you bragging rights of a 140 top end. Much less and even a Honda Accord will beat you on an open road. My ego wouldn't stand for that :(
Chuck
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Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
I converted from close-ratio to wide-ratio when I had my tranny rebuilt and I like it a lot better. I have 3.36 in the rear. The lower first gear of the wide-ratio helps get the car going from a stop. I don't find that the gears are too far apart. I like to hear the engine go through the torque range a little longer.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
If your not beating on the car try the T5. They will stand a little abuse and have a 2.95 1st and .68 or .63 overdrive. 3.70 on the highway with 1.1 gearing will rev higher then 2700 and even that is tooooo high. With 4.11 and .68 overdrive I rev 2300 at 60 and 2500 at 70 and I am looking for less rpm but don't want to give up the 4:11's.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 5,768
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From: San Diego CA
Re: Transmission Opinions? (bence13_33)
All of the comments so far seem right on the money. My .02 is this. You probably wouldnt like the M22 - its noisy - and the real McCoy dont come much cheaper than a Richmond. Your present tranny is indeed the basis on which the nascar guys run, but dont believe they rush off to the local bone yard and buy a ST-10 and use it right out of the box.
The tremec is getting good press and I am looking into that or a ROD-6 for my car. If you are going to drive it the way you say , stay with the tranny you got and spend the money elsewhere.
The tremec is getting good press and I am looking into that or a ROD-6 for my car. If you are going to drive it the way you say , stay with the tranny you got and spend the money elsewhere.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
Re: Transmission Opinions? (fauxrs)
is it the t5 or the T10 that has the weak third gear???
i wonder if you pick 1 part to skimp on just so you know what breaks??? :p:
kidding if you do it right it should be the tires
ZD
i wonder if you pick 1 part to skimp on just so you know what breaks??? :p:
kidding if you do it right it should be the tires
ZD