Zz4 350?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Zz4 350?
Looking for general engine advice. 
I have a '79 that is currently in pieces in the process of being restored. I have run all new brakes and suspension (thanks VB- parts look great) and am in the process of rebuilding the dif. The original engine (all 185 factory horses) has 100K miles so looks like that has got to be replaced. I was not planning on doinf the engine right now, so I am a little behind the gun.
I am not looking to make a drag car (I have a ford Lightning for that) but I would like some respectable power. Looks like the zz4 350 is a modest engine- any thoughts? Will it fit under the stock hood? Also, any concerns with the factory transmission holding up?
I appreciate your feed back.
I have a '79 that is currently in pieces in the process of being restored. I have run all new brakes and suspension (thanks VB- parts look great) and am in the process of rebuilding the dif. The original engine (all 185 factory horses) has 100K miles so looks like that has got to be replaced. I was not planning on doinf the engine right now, so I am a little behind the gun. I am not looking to make a drag car (I have a ford Lightning for that) but I would like some respectable power. Looks like the zz4 350 is a modest engine- any thoughts? Will it fit under the stock hood? Also, any concerns with the factory transmission holding up?
I appreciate your feed back.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,367
Likes: 1,061
From: Virginia USA
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 3
From: Halifax, NS, Canada
No problem with hood clearance. I am using a dropped air cleaner with a three inch filter on a 650 Speed Demon on the stock ZZ4 intake and I have over 1" clearance. Your transmission will have no problem with the extra horses.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
I have a ZZ4 which I installed last year in my 75. It's an excellent engine, runs like a clock and is very tame: nice to drive. As long as you don't want a track car it's a great choice, excellent low end torque. I don't believe the advertised 355 hp rating unless they did the evaluation while blowing laughing gas down the carb. It's all done making power a little over 5k rpm.
If you have any thoughts at all about wanting more of a "hot rod", I would suggest buying the lower end and adding your own heads, cam, intake etc., it'll be much cheaper than tearing the engine down later and doing it. Ask me how I know
If you have any thoughts at all about wanting more of a "hot rod", I would suggest buying the lower end and adding your own heads, cam, intake etc., it'll be much cheaper than tearing the engine down later and doing it. Ask me how I know
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Great. Thanks for the quick responses.
Not sure if I am making too much of a compromise with this engine or not. Like I said, I am not looking for a 10 second car, but I am in the middle of spending 15-20K on a rebuild. What is another $1000 for some extra horses. Any thoughts on a slightly more powerful engine that will still work with the stock tranny and is not too much more than the zz4 pricewise??
theandies:
thanks for the link- very helpful. The article theandies sent me did not discuss the engine fan. Do I need an electric fan or will a clutch fan work on the serpentine system?
Not sure if I am making too much of a compromise with this engine or not. Like I said, I am not looking for a 10 second car, but I am in the middle of spending 15-20K on a rebuild. What is another $1000 for some extra horses. Any thoughts on a slightly more powerful engine that will still work with the stock tranny and is not too much more than the zz4 pricewise??
theandies:
thanks for the link- very helpful. The article theandies sent me did not discuss the engine fan. Do I need an electric fan or will a clutch fan work on the serpentine system?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
If you're not racing ... TORQUE is what you feel on street ... more displacement & stroke are quite noticeable ... either GMPP 383 smallblock below will fit under hood in same manner as ZZ4.
HT383 P/N 12499101 (about $150 more than ZZ4)
ZZ383 P/N 12498772 (about $1250 more than ZZ4)
HT383 P/N 12499101 (about $150 more than ZZ4)
ZZ383 P/N 12498772 (about $1250 more than ZZ4)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
I like the higher output of this engine. I have installed ZZ4's and in a heavier 'vette this one usually works better, especially with a loose converter or good gears. I also agree with Jackson on the 383.
http://www.sdparts.com/product/12496...eAssembly.aspx
http://www.sdparts.com/product/12496...eAssembly.aspx
Last edited by big_G; Apr 10, 2007 at 10:46 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
From: FL.
Yep...All these ZZengines Are Very Very Nice. Alot of decisions on which one too..HUH?
Maybe this will help.... the ZZ383 has a whole lot of future Potential , It Can Be powered Up and up by just Top end rebuilds. That appealed to me and I jumped in. All of em come as Shortblocks too, Thats What I did.
Good Luck..Post Results OK..
Tom
Maybe this will help.... the ZZ383 has a whole lot of future Potential , It Can Be powered Up and up by just Top end rebuilds. That appealed to me and I jumped in. All of em come as Shortblocks too, Thats What I did.
Good Luck..Post Results OK..
Tom
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Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
There is no serp system supplied with this motor, regular fan pulley system works fine. Mine runs about 190 deg all the time, maybe 200 in the summer.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 29
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http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...2-P945C53.aspx
I think the turn-key version has a sepentine belt.
Good point about the 383. What is the difference with the HT v ZZ? I was a little concerned that the zz383 would result in me having to replace the tranny?
I think the turn-key version has a sepentine belt.
Good point about the 383. What is the difference with the HT v ZZ? I was a little concerned that the zz383 would result in me having to replace the tranny?
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Staten Island NY
i was toying with the idea of a zz383 425/460 block with a ramjet 350 injection system on it. total cost came out to 7k. you do have to upgrade the injectors. seemed like everything would piece together nice. im sure the sound wouldnt be as rough as a carbd engine but you will certainly gain some gas mileage on a steady cruise
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...2-P945C53.aspx
I think the turn-key version has a sepentine belt.
Good point about the 383. What is the difference with the HT v ZZ? I was a little concerned that the zz383 would result in me having to replace the tranny?
I think the turn-key version has a sepentine belt.
Good point about the 383. What is the difference with the HT v ZZ? I was a little concerned that the zz383 would result in me having to replace the tranny?
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,175
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
325 HP/ 425 TQ versus 425 HP/ 460 TQ
HT-383:
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...D&ProdID=18295
ZZ383:
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...D&ProdID=73193
HT-383:
Specially tuned for torque, the all new HT 383 delivers great truck power in a small-block package.
With its 3.80" stroke and Vortec cylinder heads the HT 383 makes awesome torque, down low where you need it for towing or four wheeling off road.
Peak torque is 425 Ft/Lbs at 3500 RPM, but the HT 383 makes over 400 Ft/Lbs between 2500 and 4000 RPM ! Developed as a truck engine, with a truck grind roller cam, heavy duty forged powdered metal connecting rods, forged crankshaft and hypereutectic pistons the HT 383 is designed to be worked. 325 horsepower at 4500 RPM doesn't hurt either. The HT 383 should only be used in 1979 and earlier pre-emissions street vehicles or any year off road vehicles.
With its 3.80" stroke and Vortec cylinder heads the HT 383 makes awesome torque, down low where you need it for towing or four wheeling off road.
Peak torque is 425 Ft/Lbs at 3500 RPM, but the HT 383 makes over 400 Ft/Lbs between 2500 and 4000 RPM ! Developed as a truck engine, with a truck grind roller cam, heavy duty forged powdered metal connecting rods, forged crankshaft and hypereutectic pistons the HT 383 is designed to be worked. 325 horsepower at 4500 RPM doesn't hurt either. The HT 383 should only be used in 1979 and earlier pre-emissions street vehicles or any year off road vehicles.
ZZ383:
The all new ZZ383 offers Big Block performance with a Small Block price tag. GMPP starts with the legendary Fast Burn cylinder heads and 383cid, to offer an incredible 460 ft. lbs. of torque @ 4500 rpm with a smooth, linier delivery.
The combination of a 3.800 steel crank and a stout .509/.528 lift hydraulic roller camshaft produces 425hp @ 5400 rpm, making the ZZ383 the benchmark by which all other 383cid small blocks will be measured. GMs testing was completed using a GM single-plane intake manifold, a 750cfm Demon mechanical secondary carb, and 1-3/4 primary x 33 length headers with a 4 collector. A dual-plane intake manifold can be used, but will affect overall peak performance numbers by 15-20 HP.
The combination of a 3.800 steel crank and a stout .509/.528 lift hydraulic roller camshaft produces 425hp @ 5400 rpm, making the ZZ383 the benchmark by which all other 383cid small blocks will be measured. GMs testing was completed using a GM single-plane intake manifold, a 750cfm Demon mechanical secondary carb, and 1-3/4 primary x 33 length headers with a 4 collector. A dual-plane intake manifold can be used, but will affect overall peak performance numbers by 15-20 HP.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
From: FL.
The shortblock is the same, Its this one at summit..
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku
Your tranny and Bell housing will fit just fine after you Get the GMPP external balanced flyweel (if you have a Muncie). Or It comes with a External Balanced Flex plate.
Its Basically a Factory roller Block with all the Gen 1 , specifics. Parts for Gen 1 engines interchange with a few exceptions.
Thats why ,Personally ,I wouldnt Go with a sepentine system in a C3, It makes the parts match up and installation much more Complex and pricey.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
I keeeeeeeep reading and thinking, but come to the same conclusions....ie....a 383 would be nice, I suppose, IF I had a truck or something weighing 4000 lbs up......thing is....this '72 vette should weigh about 3100 lbs by now...not verified....yet......and with an automatic and 336 rear, for a STREET machine, just How much power/torque can I put down to make a whole lotta differance when I can light the ~275 rubber up but good with a warmed up 350 roller engine??? how much can I really improve performance I care about when the car out pulls ME, allready....I lift at 150mph.....
now for the track, surely more is allways merrier....but.....on the street there is such a thing as gas heading for 4bux/gallon, and a limit to how much tire can reasonably be on the road....etc....
nothing matter with spice to life, but an entire meal of red hot chili peppers is a BIT much.....
now for the track, surely more is allways merrier....but.....on the street there is such a thing as gas heading for 4bux/gallon, and a limit to how much tire can reasonably be on the road....etc....
nothing matter with spice to life, but an entire meal of red hot chili peppers is a BIT much.....
Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 465
Likes: 1
From: FRANCE (Lyon)
ZZ385 FAST BURN
because you had vortec heads, better than ZZ4 heads!
and if you have extra bucks you can add:
hot cam kit !
430HP@5800rpm
430 Ft.Lbs @4000rpm
so you had a ZZ430 clone!
idle is smooth!!! sleeper motor inside !!!
but IMO it require a manual tranny
fit under my stock 79 hood!
or go for a ZZ383
because you had vortec heads, better than ZZ4 heads!
and if you have extra bucks you can add:
hot cam kit !
430HP@5800rpm
430 Ft.Lbs @4000rpm
so you had a ZZ430 clone!
idle is smooth!!! sleeper motor inside !!!
but IMO it require a manual tranny
fit under my stock 79 hood!
or go for a ZZ383
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs Colorado
I have a zz4 and while it is a good motor I would spend the money on the zz383. I have regretted buying the zz4 since the first time I drove it. It doesnt have the grunt I was looking for. I did add a 5-speed and that helped...
Hind sight is 20/20.
Cheers,
Crunch
Hind sight is 20/20.
Cheers,
Crunch
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 29
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Crunch-O-Matic:
Thanks for the post... that was what I was afraid of. I am starting to think the 383 base is worth the extra $1000 bucks. I am getting the impression that I would be content with the zz350- but really happy with the zz383.
Right now I have the stock 4 speed manual. You think it is safe to hanlde 425ft/lbs?
Thanks for the post... that was what I was afraid of. I am starting to think the 383 base is worth the extra $1000 bucks. I am getting the impression that I would be content with the zz350- but really happy with the zz383.
Right now I have the stock 4 speed manual. You think it is safe to hanlde 425ft/lbs?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 3
From: Springfield Illinois
If ya want my opinion the small block crate engines made be GM are made cheaply. All they are good for is a cruiser, that will hardly ever see 5500 RPM on the weekends. With the ZZ383, you really can't upgrade on a cam since it has true potential of acquiring over 500 hp. The POWDERED METAL rods can't even tolerate that abuse, why don't ya think they aren't in the new LS7's. I just don't see how GM can go so cheap into putting these rods and the hyperetuetic piston (which pretty much is a cast piston with a high silicon content.
My suggestion to you is, if you want an engine that will acquire HP & Torque easier without having to worry about the lower end, is to spend the $1,000 extra to go with a ZZ454 (a forged crank, rods, pistons - a strong long lasting lower end). You might, however, have to put the Edelbrock Torker II manifold, and upgrade your suspension unless you have the F-41 stock suspension. With the $200 that you'll need to spend on the Torker II, a magazine company ran a dyno test on it with the stock cam and that manifold, and it produced around 480 HP and I think 510 FT-LB. I believe that magazine might have been Car Craft.
Anyway, I just thought I would give you my advice....
My suggestion to you is, if you want an engine that will acquire HP & Torque easier without having to worry about the lower end, is to spend the $1,000 extra to go with a ZZ454 (a forged crank, rods, pistons - a strong long lasting lower end). You might, however, have to put the Edelbrock Torker II manifold, and upgrade your suspension unless you have the F-41 stock suspension. With the $200 that you'll need to spend on the Torker II, a magazine company ran a dyno test on it with the stock cam and that manifold, and it produced around 480 HP and I think 510 FT-LB. I believe that magazine might have been Car Craft.
Anyway, I just thought I would give you my advice....