flat tappet vs. roller
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
I cant believe but then again why not. That camshafts are now being sold by how they sound! WTF happened to performance.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
This and the necessity of having a rev kit with high load springs to keep those damn rollers against the cam lobe. Otherwise the high revving and bouncing off the lobe will knock out the cam in just a matter of time. but then you don't get much bench racing bragging rights with a solid lifter flat tappet cam.
I cant believe but then again why not. That camshafts are now being sold by how they sound! WTF happened to performance.
I cant believe but then again why not. That camshafts are now being sold by how they sound! WTF happened to performance.
a 4340 grade steel crank, rods made out of 4340 with huge by
small block standards 7/16 rod bolts, bolt on heads with at least
1.437 dia valve spring, run roller rockers, use a hydraulic
camshaft don't want to go past 6500 rpm for fear there engine
will fall apart.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 62,198
Likes: 1
From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
What gets me in the modern world is people build a small block with
a 4340 grade steel crank, rods made out of 4340 with huge by
small block standards 7/16 rod bolts, bolt on heads with at least
1.437 dia valve spring, run roller rockers, use a hydraulic
camshaft don't want to go past 6500 rpm for fear there engine
will fall apart.
a 4340 grade steel crank, rods made out of 4340 with huge by
small block standards 7/16 rod bolts, bolt on heads with at least
1.437 dia valve spring, run roller rockers, use a hydraulic
camshaft don't want to go past 6500 rpm for fear there engine
will fall apart.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 43
From: Plano TX
I pulled my old L82 flat tappet motor and replaced it with a roller ZZ4. Sure I could have rebuilt the L82 but the rooler motors make more power with high lift short duration for better streetability and power.
There is a tech doc out there some where about using the 60 degree v6 roller lifters in the V8 which saves money over the conversion kits. You will need to drill and tap the block which is not hard to do and you remove the need for the non chevy tie bars.
Go roller and free yourself from the dark ages and get drivability with power
There is a tech doc out there some where about using the 60 degree v6 roller lifters in the V8 which saves money over the conversion kits. You will need to drill and tap the block which is not hard to do and you remove the need for the non chevy tie bars.
Go roller and free yourself from the dark ages and get drivability with power
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Did not like my L/82 had no low end torque and little to no top
end power, but if you use a solid that can make power above
5500 say 7500 you can have plenty of HP and use trans and rear
gearing for torque. the best thing about modern times is the easy
availability of five speed/ six speed manual trans and the 4 speed
auto.
end power, but if you use a solid that can make power above
5500 say 7500 you can have plenty of HP and use trans and rear
gearing for torque. the best thing about modern times is the easy
availability of five speed/ six speed manual trans and the 4 speed
auto.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
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Its being built to go in a daily driver, so it needs to be reliable and I dont want to have to adjust the lifters constantly. I have a temporary motor in the car so I have time to build this motor and although I don't want to waste money on unneeded or overpriced parts I am willing to spend some good money to make this motor a great daily driver. (for instance spending $1500+ on a FI kit)
Also I was not sure whether the rods needed to be replace and did not know the springs had to be replaced. Do I simply need ones built for a roller setup or what?
Also I was not sure whether the rods needed to be replace and did not know the springs had to be replaced. Do I simply need ones built for a roller setup or what?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 3
I'm willing to bet that the people who advise against going with roller lifters were too cheap to buy the lifters themselves and are trying to justify their decision.
I read a comparison article, a roller 383 made an extra 30 hp over the flat tappet. Also you won't have to worry about lifter/ cam failure. As there is no break in with a roller cam.
I read a comparison article, a roller 383 made an extra 30 hp over the flat tappet. Also you won't have to worry about lifter/ cam failure. As there is no break in with a roller cam.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Its being built to go in a daily driver, so it needs to be reliable and I dont want to have to adjust the lifters constantly. I have a temporary motor in the car so I have time to build this motor and although I don't want to waste money on unneeded or overpriced parts I am willing to spend some good money to make this motor a great daily driver. (for instance spending $1500+ on a FI kit)
Also I was not sure whether the rods needed to be replace and did not know the springs had to be replaced. Do I simply need ones built for a roller setup or what?
Also I was not sure whether the rods needed to be replace and did not know the springs had to be replaced. Do I simply need ones built for a roller setup or what?
have more closed and open pressure to control the roller lifter. You can
use stock rods with a small amount of boost and low rpm engine, have them
rezied and use good ARP rod bolts.
Last edited by Little Mouse; May 3, 2007 at 05:39 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Why guess? The cam manufacturer has already done the engineering. Just run the spring setup they recommend for the grind in question. That eliminates several potential issues such as having the wrong seat pressures, wrong spring rates, wrong spring frequency, coil bind... Oh, and use the correct dist. gear for your cam core.
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; May 3, 2007 at 05:41 AM.
Advanced
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 95
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From: '70 Coupe - SoCal
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
If I had known what I know now about lifter styles, I would have gotten a newer block that could accomodate the roller cam. However, I did not know about that stuff back then and my block is already prepped and ready to assemble. Besides, at my RPM and power level, hydraulic will work just fine.
East bound and down...
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 987
Likes: 3
From: Jonesboro Arkansas
With more and more oils removing zinc and other contact-wear additives, you'll see more and more flat tappet cams with lobes going away, even after years of service. One defective lobe on a flat tappet cam will cost a good bit more than going roller in the first place - engine removal and tear-down, bearings, new cam and lifters, yada yada. Roller is the only way to fly, IMHO, and you can have better performance and driveability at the same time.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Over $700.00 for the retro-kit. The flat tappet looks even more appealing now. 
Drifting
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 43
From: Plano TX
I beleive the tech sheet on using the 60 degree roller lifters lets you use the chevy guide but you do need to drill and tap the block. The v6 lifters are cheaper than the conversion kit and no need to run tie bar lifters.
Of course it's cheaper to find a roller block, reuse the lifters if possible then change cam, springs, push rod and possibly rocker etc... And yes with a roller you can reuse lifters not like a flat tappet
Of course it's cheaper to find a roller block, reuse the lifters if possible then change cam, springs, push rod and possibly rocker etc... And yes with a roller you can reuse lifters not like a flat tappet
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 1
From: East China MI
The fear of rollers is rooted in 25 year old problems. The manufacturers of today have solved all those problems. Even the OM's are going with rollers and their biggest concern is warranty claims. They would not spend the money if they did noy have to. What do they know that we don't?
I just pulled my 25,000 mile old roller lifters out for inspection and they look like they did the day they went in.
Oil is the big question. It's not what it used to be.
For my money, the technology of today is far superior to that of the "old school" days. Roll it baby!
I just pulled my 25,000 mile old roller lifters out for inspection and they look like they did the day they went in.
Oil is the big question. It's not what it used to be.
For my money, the technology of today is far superior to that of the "old school" days. Roll it baby!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
If your going to limit your engine on rpm using hydraulics
the hydraulic roller is the only way to fly for power and
very dependable. but if you really want more power out
of an engine you have to be willing to go higher in revs,
only a soild flat tappit or soilid roller can do that for you.
the hydraulic roller is the only way to fly for power and
very dependable. but if you really want more power out
of an engine you have to be willing to go higher in revs,
only a soild flat tappit or soilid roller can do that for you.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Abby Normal
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,346
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From: Press "2" for English
i have a copy of this conversion deal somewhere. if someone wants it, just let me know and i can forward it to you. beware, this is a big file, if you don't have high speed, you'll need to sleep on it.