79 won't turn over
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 147
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From: Lafayette IN
79 won't turn over
I don't know what's going on. About a month ago I drove it on a weekend then it sat when the weather turned sour. Last week, it started getting warmer, so since my cd player died, I got in the mood to replace it. Had some problems there, but it works fine now. HOWEVER, now the car won't start. It won't even turn over. I'm getting ~12.3V from the battery and all the accessories turn on, but the car doesn't do anything. I've checked all the fuses in the car about 3 times now and they're fine. I can't hear anything trying to work in the engine area when I turn the key. I originally thought it might be the starter, so I pulled it and had it tested at Autozone on Sunday. They said it was fine. I reinstalled and still have the same problem. I pulled the starter again last night and I'm gonna have em check it again.
Any ideas on what the problem might be?
This sucks. Its summer time and I wanna drive.......
Any ideas on what the problem might be?
This sucks. Its summer time and I wanna drive.......
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
I don't know what's going on. About a month ago I drove it on a weekend then it sat when the weather turned sour. Last week, it started getting warmer, so since my cd player died, I got in the mood to replace it. Had some problems there, but it works fine now. HOWEVER, now the car won't start. It won't even turn over. I'm getting ~12.3V from the battery and all the accessories turn on, but the car doesn't do anything. I've checked all the fuses in the car about 3 times now and they're fine. I can't hear anything trying to work in the engine area when I turn the key. I originally thought it might be the starter, so I pulled it and had it tested at Autozone on Sunday. They said it was fine. I reinstalled and still have the same problem. I pulled the starter again last night and I'm gonna have em check it again.
Any ideas on what the problem might be?
This sucks. Its summer time and I wanna drive.......
Any ideas on what the problem might be?
This sucks. Its summer time and I wanna drive.......
Do you have power at the starter when you turn the key??
Jim
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 114
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From: Spring Texas
My guess, right off, is that you accidentally cut a wire needed to start the car.
It isn’t probably your starter but one of the wires going to the starter. Since you have the starter out, check the voltage going to the wire that goes to the small lug that is closest to the block when the starter is installed. There should be 12 volts there when you turn the key to start (not just on but start). If there is no voltage there, try looking at the base of the steering column where the ignition wires connect to the column. This may have been unplugged when you were working on your CD.
Just some thoughts.
Good Luck.
It isn’t probably your starter but one of the wires going to the starter. Since you have the starter out, check the voltage going to the wire that goes to the small lug that is closest to the block when the starter is installed. There should be 12 volts there when you turn the key to start (not just on but start). If there is no voltage there, try looking at the base of the steering column where the ignition wires connect to the column. This may have been unplugged when you were working on your CD.
Just some thoughts.
Good Luck.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Lafayette IN
Well, one of the previous owners did do a hack job installing the old cd player, so it was a mess. I am more than confident of my installation - no wires were unnecessarily cut (at least by me).
I can crawl underneath the car and arc at the starter, so I know there's power there. I haven't checked voltage at the starter with the ignition at the start position.
I can crawl underneath the car and arc at the starter, so I know there's power there. I haven't checked voltage at the starter with the ignition at the start position.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
Well, one of the previous owners did do a hack job installing the old cd player, so it was a mess. I am more than confident of my installation - no wires were unnecessarily cut (at least by me).
I can crawl underneath the car and arc at the starter, so I know there's power there. I haven't checked voltage at the starter with the ignition at the start position.
I can crawl underneath the car and arc at the starter, so I know there's power there. I haven't checked voltage at the starter with the ignition at the start position.
The no start issue could be unrelated to the stereo install.
Does you your vehcile have fusible links? They should be on the wires near the starter. They go sometimes.
Jim
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From: Lafayette IN
Battery is charged at ~12.3V as of last night.
I saw what looked like fusible links on the 2 smaller wires the clamp onto the starter along with the big fat one. I can take a closer look at them tonight.
I saw what looked like fusible links on the 2 smaller wires the clamp onto the starter along with the big fat one. I can take a closer look at them tonight.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Lafayette IN
Still won't start. I crawled up under the dash to look for loose wires, and I saw 2 clips that weren't connected to anything, but they couldn't be connected together. One was long and flat, right next to the fuse box, and the other was dangling with a couple wires leading to it.
I was just reading this thread and thought it might be able to help, but I don't know what wires I'm looking at: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1689377
The best way I can describe the problem is (the car is a 4sp) its like trying to start the car without pressing the clutch.
I was just reading this thread and thought it might be able to help, but I don't know what wires I'm looking at: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1689377
The best way I can describe the problem is (the car is a 4sp) its like trying to start the car without pressing the clutch.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: New Hill NC
Use an old crappy screwdriver and short the inside terminal on the solinoid to the big terminal. See if the starter engages. If it does, you have eliminated battery etc. as the cause. Then you can go looking for a bad switch, connection, etc. in the purple wire to the solinoid. Be sure that the thing is out of gear!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
Still won't start. I crawled up under the dash to look for loose wires, and I saw 2 clips that weren't connected to anything, but they couldn't be connected together. One was long and flat, right next to the fuse box, and the other was dangling with a couple wires leading to it.
I was just reading this thread and thought it might be able to help, but I don't know what wires I'm looking at: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1689377
The best way I can describe the problem is (the car is a 4sp) its like trying to start the car without pressing the clutch.
I was just reading this thread and thought it might be able to help, but I don't know what wires I'm looking at: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1689377
The best way I can describe the problem is (the car is a 4sp) its like trying to start the car without pressing the clutch.
I looked around for a picture of your fuse panel but couldn't find one. I know on mine there are a couple of wires that plug into the fuse panel. I'm not sure if your is the same. maybe someone else can help.
Jim
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 116
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From: Prairie Village Kansas
Check the connections on the terminals on your battery. My 79 did this a while ago. All the accessories would turn on but it wouldn't turn over. Check the battery terminals and post back
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,562
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
I am going to guess (since it doesn't say in your profile) that your car is an automatic. If it is, it is highly likely that in your CD player install, you knocked your neutral safety switch out of position. Since you have good voltage at the starter, and AZ says your starter is good, that is where I would look. I believe that the commonly used expression here is "don't ask how I know".
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Lafayette IN
It's a 4 speed manual (profile updated). Maybe a clutch safety wire? I just don't know what I'm looking for under the dash....
I don't have battery posts on my battery, its the screw in type, so I'm 99% sure the connection is good (I can read 12+ volts at the starter off the big lug).
I don't have battery posts on my battery, its the screw in type, so I'm 99% sure the connection is good (I can read 12+ volts at the starter off the big lug).
Thread Starter
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From: Lafayette IN
Now I think I have a problem....Upon closer inspection, I saw the clutch safety switch was unplugged and what I'm sure was the connector for it dangling loose (a purple and yellow wire). I wasn't sure which way it plugged in, so I tried it one way then the next with no luck starting the car. Just before I was giving up, I left the key in the start position for a couple seconds and heard a *POP* from somewhere near the starter (I think). I felt the 2 smaller wires leading to the big lug on the starter and they were warm. I felt the wires leading to the clutch safety switch and they were warm, too. I think I have a short somewhere....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
Now I think I have a problem....Upon closer inspection, I saw the clutch safety switch was unplugged and what I'm sure was the connector for it dangling loose (a purple and yellow wire). I wasn't sure which way it plugged in, so I tried it one way then the next with no luck starting the car. Just before I was giving up, I left the key in the start position for a couple seconds and heard a *POP* from somewhere near the starter (I think). I felt the 2 smaller wires leading to the big lug on the starter and they were warm. I felt the wires leading to the clutch safety switch and they were warm, too. I think I have a short somewhere....
did you check the fuses??
You need a wiring diagram.
Jim
Last edited by jdp6000; May 4, 2007 at 09:32 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
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From: Aurora Ontario
I have a generic C3 manual. It shows yellow to clutch switch or neutral safety switch from there a Dark green and white wire goes to the starter interrupt relay then a purple goes from there to the starter.
If your prblems starter when you reinstalled the stereo i suggest you pull the stereo fuse and see if it makes a difference. depeding on how you hooked it up you may be taking power into the stereo and sending it back out to one of those wires going to the ignition circuit...shorting things out.
You should have no wires spiced into the harness anywhere. There is a plug on the fuse panel for the stereo and thats the only place you should be drawing power. todays stereos need a secondary source of power to hold memory and here is where most of the problems come from in 1979 there wasn't a circuit to supply constant power for memory this is were bubba usually enters the picture looking for a constant source and problems occur.
Jim
If your prblems starter when you reinstalled the stereo i suggest you pull the stereo fuse and see if it makes a difference. depeding on how you hooked it up you may be taking power into the stereo and sending it back out to one of those wires going to the ignition circuit...shorting things out.
You should have no wires spiced into the harness anywhere. There is a plug on the fuse panel for the stereo and thats the only place you should be drawing power. todays stereos need a secondary source of power to hold memory and here is where most of the problems come from in 1979 there wasn't a circuit to supply constant power for memory this is were bubba usually enters the picture looking for a constant source and problems occur.
Jim
Last edited by jdp6000; May 4, 2007 at 09:54 AM.
Thread Starter
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From: Lafayette IN
I've unhooked the stereo so there's no power going to or from. I ended up pulling the constant power from the cigarette lighter, so there should be no problem there. I pulled my accessory power from an old wire bubba clipped and had taped off. (see my other post: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1689329)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3
From: Aurora Ontario
I'm not very familiar with your year but I understand electronics. My take on the diagram i'm looking at.Here is what you should look for....
1)check fuses
2) check for power at the starter...now that something went pop...especially fusible links.
3)key off there should be no power on that yellow you found. Should go to the safety switch.
4) key on. should have power on the yellow but not on the purple.
5)purple only has power once the clutch is pushed and the switch allows it.
6)Do you see a dark green wire with white?? Once power is allowed through the switch the system has current to start the car. I suspect its that dark green/white that sends the crank signal.
7) bypassing the neutral switch. if you have power on the yellow with the ignition on only and no power on the purple you can try to bypass. Connect the yellow to the purple should trun the starter over clutch depressed or not. Make sure you are in neutral so the car doesn't jump.
what color wires do you see at the starter? should be a black and a purple...anything else??
Jim
1)check fuses
2) check for power at the starter...now that something went pop...especially fusible links.
3)key off there should be no power on that yellow you found. Should go to the safety switch.
4) key on. should have power on the yellow but not on the purple.
5)purple only has power once the clutch is pushed and the switch allows it.
6)Do you see a dark green wire with white?? Once power is allowed through the switch the system has current to start the car. I suspect its that dark green/white that sends the crank signal.
7) bypassing the neutral switch. if you have power on the yellow with the ignition on only and no power on the purple you can try to bypass. Connect the yellow to the purple should trun the starter over clutch depressed or not. Make sure you are in neutral so the car doesn't jump.
what color wires do you see at the starter? should be a black and a purple...anything else??
Jim
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Lafayette IN
Been a little busy with other things (softball season is finally here), but no luck in finding the problem. I did finally buy a Haynes manual to see the wiring diagrams.
I have no green/white wires coming out of the clutch safety switch. Just the purple/yellow wires leading to it. I've tried to bypass the switch by connecting the two together (purple to yellow), but no such luck.
At the starter there are 3 wires that go to the large lug (one big black wire from the battery and 2 small red wires from the dash area) and one small one that goes to the small lug.
Let me ask....I've had the starter tested at Autozone twice now and they say its good. Is it possible that the solenoid is bad and yet their machine say its good? I've tried to start the car directly from the starter by jumping the large lug to the small lug and nothing happened, even though there was an arc.
I'm running out of options and patience. I hate to do this (and some might consider it a sin), but I'm thinking of having it hauled to a hopefully competent shop to at least find the problem.
Thanks again.
I have no green/white wires coming out of the clutch safety switch. Just the purple/yellow wires leading to it. I've tried to bypass the switch by connecting the two together (purple to yellow), but no such luck.
At the starter there are 3 wires that go to the large lug (one big black wire from the battery and 2 small red wires from the dash area) and one small one that goes to the small lug.
Let me ask....I've had the starter tested at Autozone twice now and they say its good. Is it possible that the solenoid is bad and yet their machine say its good? I've tried to start the car directly from the starter by jumping the large lug to the small lug and nothing happened, even though there was an arc.
I'm running out of options and patience. I hate to do this (and some might consider it a sin), but I'm thinking of having it hauled to a hopefully competent shop to at least find the problem.
Thanks again.