I just got my new AFR's today Some have asked if I could post some pics of the new design Eliminators They look real good, machine work and porting (CNC) are both excelent.
It will be a while before they are installed due to bad work accident a few months ago, no one handed head swaps for me Once I do put them on, I'll let eveyone know how they install with Hooker side pipes and the .250 raised ports, angled plug clearance, ect. So without further ado...




Oil drainback port

 

I will tell you exactly how they fit with Hooker sidepipes... not well!

I have 195's (also with the raised ports), but with straight plugs. My engine builder upgraded the rocker studs, changed out the seals and of course port matched w/intake. Otherwised used them out of the box. This was the first of the new AFR-Eliminator's he had used on a street motor. He is used to doing a lot of port work on the heads he typically uses, but did not on these.

They made 25+ hp more than an otherwise identical engine he built the same week. Given the cost of labor, a cheaper set of heads with porting is as much or more than the AFRs, so the 25+HP is really a freeby.

I hope your 210s are going on a BIG SB and/or you are going with solid lifters. My 195s on my 383 with a hydraulic roller peaks at 6400 rpm and still makes well over 400lbs of torque at 3500 rpm.

But on the headers... I made the mistake of having my headers coated while the engine was out. Big mistake as I could not take the torch too them to get them to fit.

The straight plugs clear fine - same as my old cast iron straight plug set. The "Hooker" badge hit the steering box to the point I could not get the header flange flat against the head. I also found the right (passenger) side exhaust was hitting the frame.

So, I shimmed the left side motor mount up (put a shim between the mount and the motor) about 3/16" to get the right side header down (and of course it brought the left side up). Then ground the "Hooker" badge and the steering box till there was 1/8" clearance.

Then I was left with marginal (but even clearance) between the headers and the frame (where the four pipes go under the frame). About 1/8", perhaps a hair less.

So I lowered the trans to the point where it's 1 degree out of alignment with the differential (i.e. the trans yoke and diff yoke are not exactly opposite angles). This gave me a bit more clearance as it lowered the headers as well. I did not measure the amount the back of the trans came down as I'd not built the mount for the 5 speed at that point. I'm hoping the 1 degree offset does not cause any issues. If it does, I can cut an aluminum spacer to get the angle right (of course I'll have less clearance for the headers).

I've swaped the motor mounts to urethane ones to better limit motor movement.

So as it stands, the headers have marginal clearance, roughly 3/16" between the pipes and the frame. I've started the engine and rev'd it, the pipes don't hit. But, the car has not been driven.

If the pipes hit in any type of normal driving, I am going to switch to solid motor mounts.

Some choke on the idea of solid mounts, but I've run them in cars before and never given it a second thought once the car was on the road.

I expect with a stock trainy mount, you are not going to have a chance of getting enough clearance to anything but solid motor mounts - and even that is iffy.

If I were doing it over again, I'd have not coated the pipes until I test fit everything. That would have allowed me to remove the hooker badge to help with clearing the steering, and then I would have heated the tubes so I could tweak the collectors down to get back most of my frame clearance.

An alternative option is cutting the motor mounting 'ears' (big as they are) off the frame and moving them down a bit - not for the faint hearted, but straight forward.

Live and learn.

 

I'm going to install the same combo shortly. sbc 427 AFR Eliminator 210s and Hooker header/sidepipes with eurethane mounts. It doesn't sound like there are any plug clearance issues? I do have steel headers, so I can mess with them as much as needed and just repaint, did go with the stainless 4" pipes and spiral baffles though.

 

wow that was some good info frank, i am doing almost the same thing. i have the 195's and i am building a 396 sb with the hookers. too bad for me they were coated when i got them. at least i know what to look for and expect. i went with a custom crower hyd. roller. would you pm me your numbers and cam specs so i will have a ballpark guess of what i can expect by compairison?

 

Any chance one of you guys with the 210's can have the heads flowed, only one pair will do ( intake and exhaust on one cylinder shouldn't cost more than about $ 40 ) , it is always of interest to see actuall flow numbers compared to advertised flow numbers.

 

Thanks Frank for the heads up. I have no problem with solid mounts, I had them planed any way, I will just get them sooner. I switched to a rack and pinion so no worries on box clearance I should be able to at least mock up the headers on the heads to check plug clearance with the angle plugs, maybe this weekend.

 

I live in a very rural area, no shops like that for a 100 miles at least. But, I know an even better alternative. Check out Car Craft's website (carcraft.com), they have a database of head flow numbers, all tested on the same bench, by the same person. They keep adding to it so they should be there eventually, but you can at least see other AFR heads on there and then see how "honest" AFR's numbers are.

 

I'll ask, but I'm afraid to delay my motor anymore, lol. Already been waiting for 3 months for the darn heads.

 

I bought mine about 3 months ago. Took 3 days to get them. Bought them from some no-name shop in CA that had 20 or so sets. Less than $1500 delivered.

 

I think you need a 400cid motor or so to use the 210s, unless you are looking to rev to 7500.

With straight plugs and 90 degree wire boots, that is correct - no issue at all.

I have heard angle plug AFR heads work, but don't consider that to mean they do. Hooker says the headers 'fit straight plug heads'. Which implies they don't fit angle plug heads.

I'm going to order mine in a few weeks when my interior is close to done.

 

Yes you need at least 400ci to see the full potential of those heads along with a big solid roller cam, you can make 600HP with those heads

 

You are building a 396? That's what I want to build. Can you keep us posted on that build? I'm getting AFR 195s this summer and I'm having my old blackjack headers jet hot coated. So Frank, can you pm me with that shop that has plenty of heads. corvette dave, where did you order from? Three months? Dang.
Bee Jay

 

They yes they did address the oil drain back. I compared your photos against mt 210's. enough bitching must have worked

You need to hog out and round those ports So your oil will get down back faster.

 

i will be doing a photo before and after with all engine specs and build specs on the car in the comming weeks. i will post all misakes or potential problems that needed to be addressed. so far it has been smooth with the engine combo.

 

One other notable item on my motor with the AFR Eliminator 195s... the RPM Airgap intake had to be milled to fit properly.

If you are doing your own build, make sure it fits properly and the ports line up properly.

Here are my cam specs and dyno sheet from my 383 (11:1 w/93 octaine) for those interested in how they perform.

 

if headers will fit with straight plugs, they will fit with angle plugs. the angle plug head design increases clearance between the plugs and the headers - that's the only benefit to angle plugs - some will tell you they provide more power, but that's a myth.

 

Frank, That is an awful lot of cam for a little 383! Tell us about the rest of the car. It is much bigger than mine on duration. I'm surprized at the low rpm for peak power readings

 

I would have guessed at least a 6,500 peak, but being a hydraulic roller it's probably safer not to buzz it too much..

 

I know some people at a race motor shop that has entered the nation wide "Engine Masters" competition in small blocks and big blocks. One of the last competitions had strict rules on CI of a small block and H-roller under .600 lift cam with a 800 cfm limitation.

They used the same duration of cam that I have in my 383 because I told them how my motor reacted to 3 different types of roller cams. They used a 236/242 110 H-roller that peaked at 6300. That was just under the 6500 rpm rules limit.

They used AFR 215 tall port heads flowing 320/230 CFM in a Motown block like mine with a 4.185 bore and I think a 3.250 stroke to end up with 365 ci

It just proves the point that you can use big CFM and a smaller cam to make the highest HP and TQ figures.

So Godfathers Ghost is doing it right with fairly big cfm heads.

 

A myth? Really? I was raised believing that the plugs angled toward the exhaust valve was worth some power. Who started that myth? Why are angled plugs still offered? Why did Chevy go to angled plugs? Why is the sky blue? Who shot JFK?
Bee Jay