yeah i guess i put the cam in 180 off. can you pm me that pdf?

theres no one really around here that i know, im on my own on this except for some labor help from my dad.

ill get on that in the morning.

thanks for all the help, if anyone has any more info i would greatly appreciate it.

sean

 

Hang in there, Sean

It doesn't appear I can send it with PM - can you drop me an email at billla@warbird.org?

I'll be around on MSN Messenger tonight if you want some real-time help. Happy to take/make a call as well.

Bill

 

i have just one more question, on my picture of the timing chain. the crank key is around 2 oclock, is number one piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke? if i turn the crank 360* will the cam move 180?

somewhere in there i guess i messed up.

thanks for all the help guys, ill hopefully get this done tomorrow morning and ill get on here and tell how it goes

 

This is where things get interesting The cam turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank - so the crank will be at TDC twice for each cylinder, but different things will be happening

You're basically establishing where the compression stroke is in this process of installing the cam. So, the crank is at TDC and the keyway will ALWAYS be at 2:00 when it's at TDC. Then we install the crank, lining up the timing marks on the gears and ensuring the pin is at 3:00.

I can't say where things went wrong, but it's easy now with this process to get it right.

I'm on IM tonight for a bit if you want to talk about

 

im down to the timing and moving the cam.

i cant find any timing marks on my sprocke.

which one of the teeth has the timing mark so i can put it at 12:00
the key should be at 2:00 right.

should it be the one with the arrow?

 

Is that timing set the original or did you buy a new set?
Looks old to me.

 

yeah its the original.

and how do i turn the crank with the balancer off? is it ok to turn the engine with the plugs in?

 

You can put a bolt in the front of the crank snout.

Good luck turning the engine with the plugs in.

 

Yes, the key should be at 2:00...so you must be close. The marks may be as small as just a dimple on the tooth -they're there.

If that timing chain has any slack at all, it needs to be replaced, IMHO - even a cheap aftermarket thing from NAPA is better than that. I'm not sure I'd be real happy pounding on the crank gear in the car...but I think I'd rather do that than put in a timing chain with slack.

It's easiest to turn the engine with the plugs out, but you can do it slowly with the plugs in. The best way to turn the engine is with a crank socket, but the second-best way is with a flywheel tool like the one below - they're at your parts store for cheap:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

IMHO the worst way is with the balancer bolt - it wasn't made for that use and if you strip it...you have a problem.

 

I have to push back on these points...

- Cam install requires the engine be at 0, not 10 degrees

- IMHO, never insert anything hardened steel like a screwdriver in the bore. This is why piston stops are brass/bronze

- This is kind of the old way to do it - I agree the companion cylinder method can be kind of confusing and you have to be careful...but it's a heck of a lot less work.

- You really don't want to be adjusting the valves right at startup, and you DON'T want to be at 1000 RPM during startup. No less than 2000-3000 RPM for the first 20 minutes until the cam is broken in.

I agree completely that the valve adjustment thing is hard for a first timer...but take your time, and maybe have someone else read off the sheet for you so you can stay 100% focused.

 

if i wanted to pull a sick joke on a newbie i'd tell him to turn the pushrod.
the pushrod movement to reduce to zero is up & down. then 1 turn more. twirling is for dancers (and SOLID cams)

 

Umm...I disagree. I agree that you're looking for zero lash, which is an "up and down" clearance...but the best way I know to find that point is to roll the pushrod between your fingers and at the first drag, you're there. And the number of turns is dependent on the cam manufacturer - for example, CompCams recommends 1/2 turn from zero lash for preload.

The biggest mistake that "newbies" make is tightening well past zero lash...and then tightening well beyond the recommended preload. IMHO, the "twirling" is the easiest way to precisely find zero lash.

 

so far the joke has worked perfect.

 

Whew...I just disagreed; not sure what triggered this. Piston stops are like $5; pretty cheap insurance IMHO - especially since I've pulled heads off more than once to help out new builders when they've dropped something in the bore doing just this operation. Great that you're an experienced builder and don't make these kind of mistakes; unfortunately many new builders do - and that was the point of my post. A screw-in piston stop will likely be used many times, as any tuning process on an "unknown" engine starts with finding TDC.

The point of a piston STOP (either one that bolts into the spark plug or onto the block deck of a shortblock) is to STOP the piston at two points during engine rotation and make a mark on the balancer opposite the '0' mark on the timing tab...and then TDC is midway between those two points. If you're not turning the engine when you probe with a screwdriver, how can you tell you're at TDC just by "feel"?

And for valve adjustment, I'm finding that people have a lot easier time getting the engine in the right place for the adjustment with the companion cylinder method because they're only moving the engine ONCE, and it's to TDC (easy to just line up the marks) both times. If they've got a good reference like the Car Craft sheet then they're in good shape. Agreed it's definitely a "feel" thing. The problem with a "little too loose" is that if the builder can't get it close, they'll probably be WAY too loose which is a problem...and if they screw up adjusting it while its running (while they should be looking for leaks, watching oil pressure, etc.) then they have a bigger problem.

I use a different approach and I brought it up. I've helped a lot of folks build SBCs in my shop over the years and I'm just sharing what works for me and offering my opinon on others' approaches - the reader needs to figure how they want to do it on their own.

 

Sorry, just a bad day and I took it out on you. Sorry dude.
You are correct that you can't really tell if it is at TDC but I have seen so many people you can not tell if the piston is even up or not. Using the tip of a long screw driver that will not fall into the cyl allows them to at least know if the piston is up. SOme times they have the timing chain so out of wack that they think the piston is up whenit actually is not. Using the tip of a long screw driver just lets them feel that the piston is up in the cyl, then they can do the normal things to determine if they are near tdc or not. Looking at the old timing chain that he has used it could also be possible that his Balancer has spun some and if he is using it as a reference point for TDC then that would screw him up big time also. There are so many possiblitiies it would be great if he could be on the phone with some one while he is looking at the engine and doing what ever is needed.
Oh belive me I do know that you can mess up an engine fast. I lost a few of my own way back when I was drag racing and tried to do things myself without any know how. After screwing up a great set of heads (thinking I was porting them for power) I went to work with a local racer and learned what to and not to do.
Agree that it would require less work to only have to turn the engine over 2 times but have seen so many people screw that up and found that they do come closer by doing one cyl at a time. RIght now I don't think that time is this guys emeny. He should really be taking his time as something is really wrong and as you said he needs to back track and hit the basics. He said the carb was back firing. How long was the carb not used and did he use an old carb that was laying around? But agree he had the timing way out.
Know one thing for sure. He's learning things quick and I'll bet he'll be tickled pink when it does fire for the first time. Esp if he has no leaks!

Again dude, sorry for the blast. Just took it wrong on the wrong day. Won't happen again.