I am in need of an engine to get my car on the road after a full frame off resto/upgrade.
Drivetrain is setup to handle aprox 600-700hp.
Unfortunately I waited too long to look into and research my engine options and now I have run out of time to order from an engine shop as it would take them 3-12 months to build and deliver.
I have a thread in the parts section. Maybe I'll step in *&%t and get lucky for once.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1561415962

But with the way this resto has gone I'll just forge ahead.
Looking to do a 454, 468, 496 with forged internals on pump gas. No raised ports as I have already orderd the big block poly mounts and hooker super comp headers. Would like aluminum heads but my budget is very tight and I need a full motor including carb thru oil pan, mech fuel pimp, distributor and clutch.

I have a 2 bolt 454 already bored 60 thousanths. Recently done as I can still see cross hatching on the cylinder walls.
Do I rebuild this block?? maybe add splayed caps for strength??
Can anyone recommend a rotating assembly to give me the above displacement? must be forged and would really like it to match with a set of heads, intake and cam.
I've been looking at Scat, eagle, edlebrock but don't know much what to look for.
Some rotating assembly kits give me the option of a 468 with 500hp or 496 with 600hp.
My budget is very tight. I have maybe 7k to finish the car with. The 7k has to include the entire engine, clutch, power steering pump, hydroboost/jeep box hoses and alternator. Everything else is done.
I'm also nervous building my first engine. Its been a while since my pops has done one even though we still have the lift and engine stands.

Any advice would be appreciated. Or if you know of an engine that already exists for sale please post on my thread in the parts section.
Thanks

 

I have a very strong new street clutch, and steel billet flywheel,
I'm never going to use, It would take three things to use it,
an internal rotating assembly, 10 spline trans and a steel belhousing.
PM me if interested, its a 12 inch centerforce clutch and flywheel.

Personaly I would not spend the money for splayed caps and align honing,
I would buy the caps if the block already needed to be align honed. put
your money into a forged crank and stong rods ( rod bolts ) are a must
for heavy piston big blocks. Two bolt big blocks are strong, if your not going
to supercharge it or play 1960s nascar engine with it, turning high revs for
long periods of time, the splayed caps are just extra money spent. You
can make 600 hp with any of the displacements you mentioned. One way
to save a bunch of money and use that saved money to put torward
more modern better flowing aluminum heads is to spend $200.00 for
a good solid flat tappit cam/lifters and not spend $800.00 to $1000.00
for a solid or hydraulic roller.

 

I'm a build it yourself guy, so I'll leave it to others to recommend any crates.

The 2-bolt block will be fine for street perf with studs, or as you mentioned with splayed caps.

If you're buying a rotating assembly anyway, 496 it (4.25" stroke x 4.31" bore, over 0.060"), and you'll get the biggest bang for your buck. Use 6.385" rods. There are plenty of off the shelf forged pistons available for this combo. I've gone with Eagle rods and crank, but I'm going Arias custom slugs for mine.

If you want 600hp (on motor) out of it, you'll need really good heads, a 4500 base carb, solid roller valvetrain with well over 0.600" lift and probably on the order of 280*I/286*E advertised duration, small skirts and good windage. Put the bearings (I like Calico) up around 0.0025" and don't over pressure your oil pump. And, don't take anyone's word about the blueprinting. Measure everything and assemble it yourself.

With iron heads, you're going to be pushing it to get to 600hp on pump gas without issues, so if there's any way you can possibly swing the aluminum heads, do it. Takes about 75 lbs. off the nose of your car and allows substantially more CR. Aim for about 8.25 DCR for pump gas and alum. heads.

Last thing, this isn't cheap stuff I'm talking about doing, as you certainly want it to last well beyond any dyno pulls, so figure on at least $8K - $10K to do it right. May not be what you wanted to hear, but performance and reliability costs money.

 

I'm not trying to sell you on AFR heads, I would buy Brodix or dart,
but here is a comparison of airflow between a new set of rectangle
port aluminum L88/ZL1 heads that were found bare but were never used
and the new 305 runner AFR rectangle head.
L88
int. .200, 148.5
.300, 199.5
.400, 241.8
.500, 285.0
.600, 313.4
.700, 320.2
ex. .200, 122.0
.300, 150.2
.400, 172.1
.500, 183.1
.600, 187.8
.700, 190.9
AFR, 305 runner
int. .200, 151.5
.300, 225.0
.400, 285.0
.500, 333.7
.600, 365.3
.700, 362.6
ex. .200, 128.3
.300, 172.1
.400, 222.2
.500, 256.6
.600, 272.3
.700, 277.1

Both of these heads have same size runners, exhaust valve. the afr
has a tinsey bit bigger intake valve. On the exhaust side the AFR
head is just destroying the old head, and its beating it out pretty good
on the intake side to. You don't just save weight on a big block with
modern heads.

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice.
Can you recommend someplace to purchase the rotating assemblies? and/or heads? best price would help my budget.
Is it wise to try to order most of the parts from the same manufacturer to better guarantee a match so no additional porting is needed? such as Edelbrock cam/heads/intake.

Any good engine building video's out there? I have no idea how to go about setting up all these parts to the correct tollerance such as the bearings to 0.0025".

Any little tricks out there to free up some hp and save me some money?
painting lifter valley? crank scraper? ect.

Currently I have the stock muncie 4spd and an 85 Chevy 1 1/2 ton truck alluminum bellhousing with hydralic clutch. I haven't decided on the rotating assembly, can i get a big block rotating assembly already internally balanced? is it alot more $$ then external balanced? I'll have to check the spline on the trans. What do you think about the Chevy 1 1/2 ton bellhousing working with your clutch?

 

I'm fortunate enough to live just minutes from Eagle, RHS, CompCams, Lunati and other performance equipment manufacturers, so I don't have to pay mail-order prices and shipping on such goods, but you probably wouldn't save enough money to justify moving here.

While Edelbrock has some fine products, IMHO they are a bit behind the curve on cams. I believe it's best to shop for best value in each item, while making sure your combo matches up.

Crank scapper is a good idea. I'm going to use a Moroso kick-out pan with integral scapper and tray. Anti-friction coatings on skirts and modern coated bearings are other things to consider. Debur everything, but don't go crazy trying to polish the valley up. Better to divert oil to the ends...

I haven't looked for videos, but I believe it's SA who publishes a good book on Engine Blueprinting. Also, it's worth studying Smokey Yunick's Power Secrets, but bear in mind that valvetrain technology has moved forward since that one, and HP's How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevy's has just about outlived it's usefulness as it hasn't been updated in decades.

 

I have no clue if the truck belhousing clears the 12 inch pressure
plate it may not. I highly recomend regardless of where you decide
to get a clutch, at the minimum use a steel billet flywheel and
a scattershield is wise on anything making power turning revs.
You may have to go external balance.

 

Forgot to mention that many BB combo's are internally balanced. It's the 4.00" stroke 454 based ones that are generally external...

 

Are you going to build a .060 over 454 or are you going for a stroker??
www.competitionproducts.com
AFR magnum 305 runner $2117.95 roller cam springs. Same (as cast)
head I gave you the airflow numbers on, there is a fully cnc 315
version of it $2400.00, unless your going to build a 496 or bigger
engine I would think the 305 AFR head flowes plenty of air for what
you want to do. These heads have 1.625 springs, race roller stuff.
www.airflowresearch.com. www.Brodix.com.www.dartheads.com

 

For nearly complete heads of the type, that's a very good deal!

 

Near as I can tell the exhaust port is not raised on them, but the valve
sprngs are for a up to .750 lift roller, Solid rollers are great for power,
but not long lasting with high spring pressures, expensive to buy
for the extra amount of power they give you. I woulkd use a fairly stout
solid flat tappit for the amount of power he's after.

 

Little Mouse, I do appreciate your reasoning, and concede that solid roller valvetrains are expensive to assemble and maintain when compared to flat tappets. On a budget, that's a good call.

But, if you can afford it, CompCams Extreme Street Roller series lobe profiles (not on the regular menu) don't require the extreme spring rates usually associated with solid rollers, and are available in a good number of durations with lift in the 0.600" to 0.700" range using 1.7 rockers.

Bottom line, it appears we definitely agree that a moderately high lift, non-hydraulic cam is necessary for the task at hand. Also, I like LSA's from 112 to 114 for this application, too.

Now before taking the plunge the question is, 68 NJConv 454, what kind of driveability are you looking to maintain?

 

Crane has a lot of street rollers with around 400 open pressure,
I guess thats not to bad. I hate hydraulic cams of any kind I put
one in my pickup one time, I'm hoping when I die God will forgive
me.

 

I think He'll get over it. Question is, can you ever forgive yourself?

 

Check with Mike Lewis at Lewis Racing. Great guy and can often save you a few bucks...but he does things RIGHT....not half way. But he does understand a budget.

http://lewisracingengines.com/

There are quite a few good kits out there these days to build a 496. If I was buying rotating assy I'd for sure make a 496 out of it. Make sure you get forged pistons...don't cheap out for the hypereutectics.

Those AFR 305's and 315's would be perfect for a 496 like this...for most folks. 305's with the CNC chamber option will do and save a little money. Mike can get good deals on AFR stuff. Myself..I would move to the 335's to have a little room to grow later on.

To make 600HP is one thing...aiming for 700 is another. It takes more radical stuff to get in the 700 range with that many cubes. If you have all those other projects to do for the 7K total...and you're not familiar with engine building so you can save labor...this is going to be tough.

If it came down to it, I'd still do the 496 and maybe use some GM iron heads for now until the money tree grew back. One of the magazines just did a feature on a 505" motor with a solid flat tappet and out of the box GM iron rectangulars that made 625HP or so I think. Gotta figure a little fudge in the *California magazine Numbers*..but still a nice engine. Check the websites..Car Craft....Chevy Hi Performance..one of them.

A hyd roller will work OK....but I'm also a solid anything fan over hyd rollers in big blocks like this. They rev awful quick when they start making power and it's very easy to get into an RPM range that hyd won't like. No use hurting stuff. You can make more power and be able to rev all day as well as have better manners with a solid flat tappet in this range. Throw a solid roller in it and it's even better..but you have to sign up for the long term maintenance issues that come with the territory there.


Looking for intakes, heads etc on E-bay and stuff might help.

But find someone to help you with clearance checking to make it live a long life.

And I'm not too sure that Muncie is really going to like this plan. Also, PLEASE invest in a scattershield. Don't even consider that aluminum housing for one more second. Bad things can happen fast when you start making serious power. Better to have it and never need it than the other way around. Sorta like seatbelts.


JIM
JIM

 

Hi NJ,

I just completed my 454 for about $6k including the aluminum heads. I'll dig up all the specs and PM you.

Ian

 

Thanks guys, I wasn't expecting this many responses and info. My threads usually die out after 7 minutes.

This is a street car. Must run on pump gas. Not planning on any track appearances but after all the work I've put into her I want her to be able to hold her own on the street and have a good time on the open roads.

Thanks Jim. I will look into those places as well as the other manufacturers everyone else sugested.
I'm sure my muncie is a little scared with this talk but i just had it rebuilt and beefed up. I don't drop the clutch and the cars not going to the track so I think it'll be fine. I've got the close ratio, hurst shifter and a brand new 3.73 beefed up diff.
My future plans are a tko-600 or a viper 6spd (hopefully within the next two years)
Also have a dragvette drive shaft loop (this thing is bomb proof) and toms half shaft loops.
Can you recommend a scattershield for my setup? I never see one that will fit a muncie or manual in the summit or jegs mags.
How do you feel about those nylon/kevlar wrap around universal scattershields? Its a manual, is air circulation that critical?

I'd love to see your build info. Any pics send to doogie1101@hotmail.com
Was that $6k from carb to oil pan? what aluminum heads did you go with?
Last night while thumbing thru an old Hot Rod mag I saw an advertisement for Speedo-Motive. Anyone deal with them? They had some decent short/long block options. I'd try to get them to build me a long block with good internals and my choice of heads.

Thanks guys, I'm excited to finally devote most of my attention to the heart and soul of this vette.

 

For the street, keep idle vacuum signal to the carb in mind when selecting that bump stick. Driveability suffers when durations start getting out there. Wide LSA can only help so much.

 

I think I know what your talking about. I still have a lot to learn about certain parts of the engine...the cam stuff is most confusing to me.
I do however have no vacume headlights or wiper door. No vacume system in this vette. So the engine doesn't have to worry about producing vacume to power the headlamps.
Can't tell you how great it is to see no vacume lines in the engine compartment.

 

What lobe separation angle do you recommend? I went with 109 degrees. Will that be sufficient to run the vac systems?