Hey Guys...I have no idea if this is suppose to be normal and VB&P is closed for the day so maybe you all know the answer. See the pics below of the passenger side "D" mount to the frame where the rack & pinion are mounted. Is this suppose to be normal the 1/2" sliding back and forth through the "D" bracket that holds the unit to the frame? All my bolts are tight as hell...nothing is loose or going anywhere, but the some how I don't think this is correct.

I have been having a steering problem lately and wonder if this is it. After I do a u-turn...immediately the steering wheel will be in the 11 or 1 o'clock or position to make the car steer straight. Eventually the steering wheel magically centers itself to the 12 o'clock position after say 25+ miles....then as soon as I go to make a u-turn or I am hot roding it around a long sweeping corner/turn the steering wheel is slightly off center at the 11 or 1 o'clock position. I had intially thought that maybe my toe in the rear was changing but that is definitely not the case as the shims are in there tight as hell and I can't budge the trailing arm in its pocket next to the pivot bolt. I have literally checked over the entire car and this is the only time that looks out of place.

 

I've never played with Steeroids, but that is definitely NOT right! Retro-fit or not, there's no way the rack housing should move left to right in a R/P setup. That would be a prime explanation for why your wheel's straight ahead position has been changing.
The front wheels should centre themselves after a turn, which is what the caster angle is for in the front wheel alignment (think of shopping trolley wheels!) and the position of your steering wheel would then be dictated by how your rack housing sits, relative to the centred front wheels. If the rack housing position changes, the steering column has to rotate to compensate, hence the change in steering wheel position.
Those rubber mounts look a bit incapable - is that all that's stopping the rack from moving side to side, just the friction in the rubber?!

 

No thats not supposed to happen. The driverside bushing locates the rack. The pass. side just holds the tube of the rack. Check the drivers side bushing to see if it is bad. You can get new ones at an auto parts store. Have someone turn the wheels while you look under and see what is happening. Is this a steeriods or someone made one up? You may have some bracket flexing going on.

 

here is a pic of the drivers side...as you can see from the lack of rubbing all the grease and dirt are still there :-) so it is not moving anywhere on the drivers side. I have literally checked every nut/bolt/u-joint and even the a-arm mounts and all is rock solid. If this is normal for the passenger side rack to move like this then I am going to take the car to the alignment shop and while it will cost some bucks...i am thinking we take measurements first...drive it around getting the steering wheel to change position and then put it back up on the rack and try to figure out what changed.

Car drives perfectly straight....just the steering wheel can't make up its mind between 11, 12, or 1 o'clock position.

 

Yes, Art is correct, the bracket that holds laterally is the driver's side, which is somehow allowing the rack to slip sideways...methinks you have either a failure in the main mounting bracket, an install error, missing/loose bolts/nutz...... OR


heaven to OH NO!!!!.....a frame flex issue due to broken welds, fatiqued metal, or worse even YET....RUST.....

better check that puppy out super carefully...start engine, get under the front and look at everyone there.... for full function while your gal turns the wheels side to side....even jambs the wheels against the stops firmly, not crazy....but enough to make sure it's up against the stops...and hold it there while you check out wtf is going on....you need the wheels to be on the ground for full drag otherwise you maybe wasting time....

 

YOU know, from what you said....check your splines on the steering column coupler....make damn sure that bolt is tigher and hell.....

and there is NO SLIP/Problem in the input linkage....

MY rach has never shifted, but it's been ~5.5 years and some spirited driving on my own install....

 

I would also check that you have absolutly NO binding at the ujoints. And check the lower bearing at the base of the column So that there is no lateral movement. These are important. Any binding is going to cause some flex somewhere. Brackets or frame.

 

Thanks guys...yes I agree that something is not right flexing causing this stuff. It is definitely a 2 person job so I will try to locate somebody to turn the wheel while I watch to see what is flexing under there. My frame is rock solid...no rust and no signs of ever having rust or previous pitting. The first thing I checked was the allen screws holding the shafts and u-joints. All is good. I checked all the mounting bolts, etc. and all is good. This rack has about 4,000 miles on it since new December and I do drive my car hard, but not abusive as I am always mindful of the bumps, etc.

This really sucks as I am signed up for auto-x tomorrow but now I don't feel safe at all doing this...especially since Moroso is 92 miles away. A very long tow ride indeed not to mention possibly more $$$ in repair if something stresses too far and breaks. At least we have narrowed down the problem...now onto getting it fixed.

I have been PMing with TT and it seems as if the drivers side bracket is not supported adequately and needs reinforcements to keep it from flexing. I am by no means an expert, but it seems that the entire support for the steering system is a little weak with just the drivers side bracket holding everything together. From the advice of twinturbo, I am going to have the drivers side re-inforced and also creatively weld a support brace on the passenger side "D" loop. Of course this will make it a real pain in the butt to replace the rack with it being welded to the frame supports, but how often would I really need to do remove the rack?

 

I found the problem....without a doubt the drivers side steeriods mount is flexing like crazy with the car sitting still on the ground I found a person to move the steering wheel while I looked. I could not believe it. I again for the 10th time tried to crank down all the nuts and bolts...all were tight. So then I am thinking my worse fears...inside frame rail rust/rot. So I pull off the drivers side tire and through the large hole going inside to the frame rail where like 8+ nuts/bolts are within a 3x3" area on the frame rail and nope...all good and clean. it was a bit greasy in there and dirty but after I moved way the grime it was pefect...not a spec of rust and the metal was nice and smooth. Probably been protected from grease/oil layer all these 38+ years. I can see the actual bracket itself is flexing...this is the long vertical part that goes down to where the "D" loop bracket is located. In all honesty...I am not an engineer by any means but it seems after looking at how many different nuts/bolts they used through a 3" area on the frame rail that obviously there is a ton of pressure/support going through this drivers side bracket. Yhis is the only item holding the support against the forces of the road and steering wheel keeping the car pointed where you want to go. I have had this problem for a while and it got worse when I installed the VB&P upper/lower tubular a-arms with mono-spring conversion. I am going to try and take a video of it so you guys can see for yourself the flexing before I have it all welded up and I am doing both sides making sure that the rack is fixed in one place.

thanks to twin turbo for showing me some extra welded supports he does when installing these and your all support as well. I push my car hard...but i don't abuse it and with new $3,700 rims/tires I am very mindful of the roads. I am surprised that some others have not noticed this flexing before...it was very minor with the stock suspension, but very noticeable with the new performance stuff.

Also I checked the turn stops and the car is turning full turn with it just barely hitting the a-arm stop.

 

YOu know what's got ME scratchin MY *** is that the steeroids bracket on driver's side is SO much more steel in there, even 1/4 inch damn nearly thick in spots anyway....and MY bracket has been on there since 02 now....about 5.5 years or so....spirited rough roads...hard enough cornering....wide 255 up front 50/17 275 rear....stock suspension with urethane bushings....various sway bars....and yet that bracket is made of just 1/8 inch 1" square tube welded up from angle iron....

and the whole thing has just ONE angles back 1/8 to ONE of the old steering ram bolts on the forward outer frame edge on bottom there...
and TWO out of the 3 bolts laterally through the frame....so to this bracket, is just 3 bolts total, and then the stock rack clamp to it, done...that's all it ever was....nothing special...I can't figger out why in hell there are so many steeroids driver side brackets shown here/elsewhere with failures, and now a report like this...and yes, I talk to TT also on back channel quite often, about all sorts of stuff....this being one of them.....I see pix of the Steeroids bracket and have seen just ONE in person....and it's looking like total and complete overkill compared to MY setup....go figger....dunno...

 

I have the tubular arms with the mono spring. With 255/60/15. And don't have signs of this problem. I would disconnect the tie rods at the center of the rack and see if you have fluid movement turninig the wheel left to right. Make sure you re torque the bolts with loctite I found one loose that was scary.

 

sure seems like the flexing is caused by the frame.....if the passenger side is rigid and not moving what else could it be?

 

i wonder when the first guy is going to wreck and maybe die because of this piece of crap steeroids.

I don't even know if i'd trust it to go to a show n' shine much less racing.

 

That is wild stuff.

We have all had "do it yourself" rack discussions and much to-do about the thickness and quality of the driver bracket in relation to frame flex. I trust Gene when he talks about his 1/8" tube doing the job...also because I have personally seen and been in his car. Solid as a rock.

When I built my own rack, I went a little overboard on the left bracket - but mostly because I could only get my hands on heavier gauge stuff. I have not experienced the steering wheel flex.

I am aware of a new rack coming on the market soon. It has two features different than steeroids. It has a significantly beefier left bracket, and a OEM style slip joint for the input shaft. It will be interesting to see how that one compares.

As far as reinforcing this one, I would suspect TT has some strong suggestions (pun intended). I would imagine some angle iron welded vertical to the left brace.

Has anyone inquired direct with Steeroids about this issue?

Perhaps they have a reinforcement plate available?

 

Here are some pics and video of the problem. Just a little background info..

1. Newly installed December 2006
2. There is are no rust issues/not even suface rust and no inside frame rot either...just ask Chris (69myway) as he knows my car and did the install
3. Car has about 4,000 miles since December on spirited driving...not Dukes of Hazard, but fun spirited
4. Noticed the problem beginning around April/May with the steering wheel not returning to 12 o'clock position after some cornering or a u-turn, etc. and then after 5 miles or so going down the road the steeering wheel would eventually return to 12 o'clock position
5. June/July installed was the complete VB&P front & rear performance suspension (front mono-spring, tubular a-arms, 6 link, etc.)
6. End of July....notice the problem is getting worse with me driving down the road for a long time with steering wheel at 11 or 1 o'clock position not returning to dead center. Car still tracks perfectly straight...just the steering wheel is not top dead center
7. August...put on new 18" wheels with sticky tires and now the problem has definitely caught my attention as I had other things to attend to in July such as my 6 link system.

Well...here are the pics. As you can see from the passenger side "D" loop mount the rack & pinion has been moving about 1/2" to either side. I recheck the bolts/nuts in the frame and all is tight as hell and again no frame issues. So the video tells all....you can see the vertical mount plate that extends from the frame down to the R&P flex like crazy. I took a ton of different angle shots so you can see the frame is not moving and the bracket is moving as it extends from the frame.

Here is the passenger side "D" loop mount. You can see where it has been moving from the lack of grease


Here is a pic of the drivers mount...notice how the "D" loop is secured in the grooves of the R&P


Here is a video from the rear of the support. You can see how this part of the angle bracket is not moving. Movement is on the front where the R&P mounts.


another view from the rear of the car looking forward


Here is the exact opposite view from the front of the car. Notice the mount bolt to the r&P moving


this is looking straight up from the ground at the support bracket


Another from the ground looking up shot


another shot from the ground looking up showing the flexing from a different angle


here is a video of the drivers side "D" loop...notice that the rack is not moving inside the "D" loop


btw...I had today off and went to 2 different shops. The first shop was a pure custom rod shop and the guy could not say enough great thinks about how poorly the entire bracket was designed and refused to weld additional angle iron supports saying the entire mounting system needed to be re-done. He mentioned the Mustang Flaming River units were while not perfect in design, but were a lot stronger and better designed. I went to a 2nd shop from a recomendation of a friend and they could not believe it either. They said that they probably could weld up the additional supports but had similar comments about the poor design and how the vertical mounting bracket was not thick enough. They told me to not drive the car as the metal has fatigued causing the flex to get worse and that even if they did weld the additional supports they would have to change out the vertical support since it is flexing so bad.

Also I called VB&P this morning and left a message with Gary. I am hoping to hear back from them soon with an solution that will ensure the safety of me and others who buy this product as this is dangerous.

 

Hi

This is frightening. I agree not to drive this anymore.

I checked the rack & pinion design on my Audi 200 and it is mounted rock solid between the chassis longerongs. No way it can moove because it is mounted directly between. No extending brackets that can flex.

Problem is, whoever rewelds this setup takes a chance of being liable in case something happens. I think that the manufacturere of the system has to get this straightened up correctly.

Well, your documentation pushes my opinion back to the Jeep power steering box. Mounted the same way as the original design must be good.

Günther

 

Whoa, you definitely have something wrong. It's not supposed to move around that much. We manufacture the kit so send me an e-mail or call me at 940.769.3804 ext 3.

 

I just spoke with Eric from SpeedDirect and they are going to take care of the problem sending me another complete drivers side mount bracket that has been re-designed. I hope this does the trick and that some how maybe I got unlucky with this bracket setup. I asked about having the r&p welded/fixed to the frame and he did not see a problem with this and so I might go this route.

 

Well at least they responded to your problem and it sounds like they are going to address it. When I emailed them about my problem with one of the hydraulic lines chaffing on the bracket, their response was "They never heard of any problems like that." In fact we know some of the lines were clocked wrong on the racks, but there was no offer to correct mine.

 

This is not intended as a flame, but an observation .....

so it seems there are many guys doing extreme modifications on their cars.....and many of them have very limited tools/experience/knowledge to be doing that.....they are in dangerous territory, and so some units, like Steeroids, need more attention to detail and understanding than others.....

not necessarily defending Speed Direct here, just commenting about what seems to be a lack of mechanical understanding over what seem like minor issues....

I have seen a few heavily modded vettes over the years, and none of the heavy hitters seem to have the problems installing gear, let alone something kitted up....

not saying anything is necessarily Wrong with the install, but I do wonder as so many others seem fine....