Camshaft Gurus I need help
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 7
From: Chetwynd B.C.
Camshaft Gurus I need help
New car for me (7 weeks) but have discovered some problems so am trying to look at the bright side of things. I get to build up the motor a little. 
The NOM 454 needs a new cam and lifters as a few of the lifters have collapsed and 2 of the cam lobes have been wiped. I am Cam ignorant but have tried to follow along on a number of old threads to try to understand what goes into choosing a new cam but it is pretty technical to me. There are a number of very knowledgeable Gurus on this site so thought I could ask for some expert help. Hope I’m not getting too technical. What kind of lift and duration would you suggest with what I have already? What would be the minimum and maximum that would work? What kind of lobe separation would you suggest? I’m hoping for 450+ rwhp and around 500 lb. of torque.
I will be using the car about 50/50 between hi-way cruising and around town. Trips of a few to several hundred miles at a time on weekends will be the norm along with around town in between. I would also like to take it to the local races once a year and not embarrass myself.
I’m not sure what info you need to help me out; so here are all of the #’s as I know them. I’m sure I am supplying too many #’s but not sure what you may need so decided to supply lots and if you need anything else please let me know.
Block 3999289 out of a '72 Vette LS-5 and was bored .030, forged pistons.
Heads: 3964290....69-70...oval..CLOSED. 454, 101cc chamber (heads were also shaved 12 thous.)
Intake Manifold: aluminum Edelbrock Performer RPM (#’s on manifold 7161 1210)
Intake Valve: 2.19 undercut (stainless)
Exhaust Valve: 1.72 undercut (stainless)
Roller Rockers: Comp Cam 1.72 ratio
Push Rod length 8.280” Diam. 3/8” (part # 1805)
Piston #’s: 05-355-15-C (Flat Top) L2399F 030
Transmission I’m pretty sure is a M-21 close ratio. (1968 L79 car)
Headers: Hedman
Carburetor: Holley Street Avenger 770 cfm with #75 jets in primary and #83 in secondary as suggested by Lars.
Exhaust: Dual 2 1/2"
Rear end gears: I did a count of the drive shaft revolutions compared to 1 revolution of the rear tires and came up with 3.75 (or there about) so they must be 3:70??
The cam that is in the motor now is a Lunati 60201LK. Here is a link to the specs. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...K&autoview=sku
This is now one of my winter projects. I also want to put in a tach drive HEI.
Thanks for all your help and looking forward to any suggestions. My wife thinks I have an addiction and can’t decide if it is the car or this site. Thanks again.
Shmoky
PS Rhoades lifters were suggested to me. What are your thoughts on these?
The NOM 454 needs a new cam and lifters as a few of the lifters have collapsed and 2 of the cam lobes have been wiped. I am Cam ignorant but have tried to follow along on a number of old threads to try to understand what goes into choosing a new cam but it is pretty technical to me. There are a number of very knowledgeable Gurus on this site so thought I could ask for some expert help. Hope I’m not getting too technical. What kind of lift and duration would you suggest with what I have already? What would be the minimum and maximum that would work? What kind of lobe separation would you suggest? I’m hoping for 450+ rwhp and around 500 lb. of torque.I will be using the car about 50/50 between hi-way cruising and around town. Trips of a few to several hundred miles at a time on weekends will be the norm along with around town in between. I would also like to take it to the local races once a year and not embarrass myself.
I’m not sure what info you need to help me out; so here are all of the #’s as I know them. I’m sure I am supplying too many #’s but not sure what you may need so decided to supply lots and if you need anything else please let me know.
Block 3999289 out of a '72 Vette LS-5 and was bored .030, forged pistons.
Heads: 3964290....69-70...oval..CLOSED. 454, 101cc chamber (heads were also shaved 12 thous.)
Intake Manifold: aluminum Edelbrock Performer RPM (#’s on manifold 7161 1210)
Intake Valve: 2.19 undercut (stainless)
Exhaust Valve: 1.72 undercut (stainless)
Roller Rockers: Comp Cam 1.72 ratio
Push Rod length 8.280” Diam. 3/8” (part # 1805)
Piston #’s: 05-355-15-C (Flat Top) L2399F 030
Transmission I’m pretty sure is a M-21 close ratio. (1968 L79 car)
Headers: Hedman
Carburetor: Holley Street Avenger 770 cfm with #75 jets in primary and #83 in secondary as suggested by Lars.
Exhaust: Dual 2 1/2"
Rear end gears: I did a count of the drive shaft revolutions compared to 1 revolution of the rear tires and came up with 3.75 (or there about) so they must be 3:70??
The cam that is in the motor now is a Lunati 60201LK. Here is a link to the specs. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...K&autoview=sku
This is now one of my winter projects. I also want to put in a tach drive HEI.
Thanks for all your help and looking forward to any suggestions. My wife thinks I have an addiction and can’t decide if it is the car or this site. Thanks again.
Shmoky
PS Rhoades lifters were suggested to me. What are your thoughts on these?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Valves are relatively small ... particularly exhaust.
All 3 of my sealed power & speed pro catalogs list bbc forged piston L2399F030 ... each shows it having a dome 0.095" tall having +13.8cc dome volume. If your heads were ~ 101cc ... and then cut 0.012" .. suggest chambers now ABOUT 98cc. You didn't show if block's deck has been cut/decked/shortened and if so how much ... if so, compression goes up. W/ stock deck & typical gasket & your cut heads & stock L2399F30 pistons ... suggest your 460"bbc static compression closer to 10.5:1.
Suggest you first find cause of wiped cam. Coil bind? ... retainers hitting guide/seal? Suggest you verify valve train can handle lift it was/is expected to support. FYI, OE bbc springs/retainers seldom permit much lift.
Summit has good quality house brand cam & lifter kits ... their K1301 or K1302 kits can probably be had for under $90 and would probably work well with your gears, compression etc ... but verify valve train can handle lift regardless what you get. G'Luck!
All 3 of my sealed power & speed pro catalogs list bbc forged piston L2399F030 ... each shows it having a dome 0.095" tall having +13.8cc dome volume. If your heads were ~ 101cc ... and then cut 0.012" .. suggest chambers now ABOUT 98cc. You didn't show if block's deck has been cut/decked/shortened and if so how much ... if so, compression goes up. W/ stock deck & typical gasket & your cut heads & stock L2399F30 pistons ... suggest your 460"bbc static compression closer to 10.5:1.
Suggest you first find cause of wiped cam. Coil bind? ... retainers hitting guide/seal? Suggest you verify valve train can handle lift it was/is expected to support. FYI, OE bbc springs/retainers seldom permit much lift.
Summit has good quality house brand cam & lifter kits ... their K1301 or K1302 kits can probably be had for under $90 and would probably work well with your gears, compression etc ... but verify valve train can handle lift regardless what you get. G'Luck!
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: St Louis Missouri
When looking into a cam and the performance you want do not neglect the dynamic compression ratio (DCR). There is a calculator around that when you input engine and cam specs will tell you the DCR, and you can use it to learn what cam specs you want for your engine. I know I got the calculator from a link on the Forum, but I can’t tell you where.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 18
From: Lake Ozark, MO
I have basically the same setup you do (closed ovals) and run this cam:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...3&autoview=sku
Idle is a little rough for an auto but it gets by. Desk top dyno show a very linear power band with torque flat at 500 ft lb from 2500 to 4500 RPM. Peak HP is 475 from 5000 to 6000 rpm.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...3&autoview=sku
Idle is a little rough for an auto but it gets by. Desk top dyno show a very linear power band with torque flat at 500 ft lb from 2500 to 4500 RPM. Peak HP is 475 from 5000 to 6000 rpm.
Last edited by Hvymtlc5; Aug 20, 2007 at 02:44 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 99
From: Orrtanna Pa.
Check out Comp Cams site. There's articles showing buildups using of course... Comp Cams. I saw one on a 454 running the XE-284 on pretty much a stock 454,that pulled right around 540 hp.Tons of torque throughout thr revs. Kind of makes me envious to get that much power so easy.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1108284073
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1108284073
Last edited by The Money Pit; Aug 20, 2007 at 03:31 PM.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Every 2027 Corvette Engine Explained
Joe Kucinski
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Verdad Gallardo
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 10
From: Austin TX
I'd run at least a cam with 230 degree @ .50 with iron heads and 10 or 10.5:1 compression. You have 3.70 gears so no problem there. If you have headers and a clean flowing exhaust, I'm a proponent of a good single pattern cam. Look up Comp Cams Magnum 280H. If you go bigger, you may not have the vacuum needed to run half the stuff on your Vette,..pwr brakes, headlights, etc.
I've run this cam,..it's great. Noticeable idle, reasonable ramps, quiet valvetrain. It's nothing below 2000 RPM, but from 3000-5500 it runs like a p!ssed-off greyhound.
Or, is a roller in the budget?
Good luck!
I've run this cam,..it's great. Noticeable idle, reasonable ramps, quiet valvetrain. It's nothing below 2000 RPM, but from 3000-5500 it runs like a p!ssed-off greyhound.
Or, is a roller in the budget?
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 7
From: Chetwynd B.C.
Thanx for the information and advice. And yes gator79 you are right 
I obviously wasn't thinking staight.
Jackson your #'s are very helpful. I have had no work done to the block at all. Nothing cut, decked or shortened. I will be using FelPro gaskets throughout. The cause of the wiped cam is related to a VERY loose valve guide that started the whole mess. We will definetly be checking that the valve train can handle the lift. Thanx for the heads up. I checked out the two summit cams and like the looks of the K1301
I'm comparing it to the Comp Cams CL11-246-3 The Advertised Durations are damn close but the lift on the Comp is .052/.055 higher. Please explain: if the Lobe separation is 114 on the Summit and 110 on the Comp why the operating ranges are Summit 2200-4500, Comp 1800-6000? I thought these would be reversed. My understanding is the wider the separation the better top end and lower separation is better low and mid range. Or is this only going to show up on the dyno/track? Or is the reason because of the greater lift? TIA
Hvymtlc5, nice looking cam. This the one I am comparing above. 
Money Pit, GREAT article A real good read and comparison. I think the 284 is a little extreme for me but the 274 is the same as the one Hvymtlc5 is using.
Dark Blue 454, the magnum 280H site says it may cause some problems with the vacuum at the low rpms. Did you have any such problems? And no there is not a roller in the budget
Thanx to you all for your help and advice. Looking forward to lots more (just to confuse me more
)
Shmoky
I obviously wasn't thinking staight.Jackson your #'s are very helpful. I have had no work done to the block at all. Nothing cut, decked or shortened. I will be using FelPro gaskets throughout. The cause of the wiped cam is related to a VERY loose valve guide that started the whole mess. We will definetly be checking that the valve train can handle the lift. Thanx for the heads up. I checked out the two summit cams and like the looks of the K1301
I'm comparing it to the Comp Cams CL11-246-3 The Advertised Durations are damn close but the lift on the Comp is .052/.055 higher. Please explain: if the Lobe separation is 114 on the Summit and 110 on the Comp why the operating ranges are Summit 2200-4500, Comp 1800-6000? I thought these would be reversed. My understanding is the wider the separation the better top end and lower separation is better low and mid range. Or is this only going to show up on the dyno/track? Or is the reason because of the greater lift? TIA
Hvymtlc5, nice looking cam.
This the one I am comparing above. Money Pit, GREAT article
A real good read and comparison. I think the 284 is a little extreme for me but the 274 is the same as the one Hvymtlc5 is using. Dark Blue 454, the magnum 280H site says it may cause some problems with the vacuum at the low rpms. Did you have any such problems? And no there is not a roller in the budget
Thanx to you all for your help and advice. Looking forward to lots more (just to confuse me more
)Shmoky
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
Lsa?
I'd run at least a cam with 230 degree @ .50 with iron heads and 10 or 10.5:1 compression. You have 3.70 gears so no problem there. If you have headers and a clean flowing exhaust, I'm a proponent of a good single pattern cam. Look up Comp Cams Magnum 280H. If you go bigger, you may not have the vacuum needed to run half the stuff on your Vette,..pwr brakes, headlights, etc.
I've run this cam,..it's great. Noticeable idle, reasonable ramps, quiet valvetrain. It's nothing below 2000 RPM, but from 3000-5500 it runs like a p!ssed-off greyhound.
Or, is a roller in the budget?
Good luck!
I've run this cam,..it's great. Noticeable idle, reasonable ramps, quiet valvetrain. It's nothing below 2000 RPM, but from 3000-5500 it runs like a p!ssed-off greyhound.
Or, is a roller in the budget?
Good luck!
I had a 74 w/ a 427 and my cam was to hot and it too wiped out a lobe with the $hit oil we have now!! With everything above being mentioned keep your LSA (lobe seperation angle) on the high side lets say 112 to 116. If you go below 112 your idle and idle vacuum will suffer.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Phenix Al
To keep the cam alive, breakin is important be sure to follow the cam companys insructions. I run a crane cams blue racer .500" lift and pulled 545 with ported ovals and rpm airgap with 770 avenger. this cam has a noticalble idle. and plenty of vacum..
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 7
From: Chetwynd B.C.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 7
From: Chetwynd B.C.
Thanx for the information and advice. And yes gator79 you are right I obviously wasn't thinking staight.
Jackson your #'s are very helpful. I have had no work done to the block at all. Nothing cut, decked or shortened. I will be using FelPro gaskets throughout. The cause of the wiped cam is related to a VERY loose valve guide that started the whole mess. We will definetly be checking that the valve train can handle the lift. Thanx for the heads up. I checked out the two summit cams and like the looks of the K1301
I'm comparing it to the Comp Cams CL11-246-3 The Advertised Durations are damn close but the lift on the Comp is .052/.055 higher. Please explain: if the Lobe separation is 114 on the Summit and 110 on the Comp why the operating ranges are Summit 2200-4500, Comp 1800-6000? I thought these would be reversed. My understanding is the wider the separation the better top end and lower separation is better low and mid range. Or is this only going to show up on the dyno/track? Or is the reason because of the greater lift? TIA
Hvymtlc5, nice looking cam. This the one I am comparing above.
Money Pit, GREAT article A real good read and comparison. I think the 284 is a little extreme for me but the 274 is the same as the one Hvymtlc5 is using.
Dark Blue 454, the magnum 280H site says it may cause some problems with the vacuum at the low rpms. Did you have any such problems? And no there is not a roller in the budget
Thanx to you all for your help and advice. Looking forward to lots more (just to confuse me more )
Shmoky
I obviously wasn't thinking staight.Jackson your #'s are very helpful. I have had no work done to the block at all. Nothing cut, decked or shortened. I will be using FelPro gaskets throughout. The cause of the wiped cam is related to a VERY loose valve guide that started the whole mess. We will definetly be checking that the valve train can handle the lift. Thanx for the heads up. I checked out the two summit cams and like the looks of the K1301
I'm comparing it to the Comp Cams CL11-246-3 The Advertised Durations are damn close but the lift on the Comp is .052/.055 higher. Please explain: if the Lobe separation is 114 on the Summit and 110 on the Comp why the operating ranges are Summit 2200-4500, Comp 1800-6000? I thought these would be reversed. My understanding is the wider the separation the better top end and lower separation is better low and mid range. Or is this only going to show up on the dyno/track? Or is the reason because of the greater lift? TIA
Hvymtlc5, nice looking cam.
This the one I am comparing above. Money Pit, GREAT article
A real good read and comparison. I think the 284 is a little extreme for me but the 274 is the same as the one Hvymtlc5 is using. Dark Blue 454, the magnum 280H site says it may cause some problems with the vacuum at the low rpms. Did you have any such problems? And no there is not a roller in the budget
Thanx to you all for your help and advice. Looking forward to lots more (just to confuse me more
)Shmoky
Am I out to lunch here? Somebody help me out here please. Or am I just
shmoky
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Jackson your #'s are very helpful. I have had no work done to the block at all. Nothing cut, decked or shortened. I will be using FelPro gaskets throughout. The cause of the wiped cam is related to a VERY loose valve guide that started the whole mess. We will definetly be checking that the valve train can handle the lift. Thanx for the heads up. I checked out the two summit cams and like the looks of the K1301
I'm comparing it to the Comp Cams CL11-246-3 The Advertised Durations are damn close but the lift on the Comp is .052/.055 higher. Please explain: if the Lobe separation is 114 on the Summit and 110 on the Comp why the operating ranges are Summit 2200-4500, Comp 1800-6000? I thought these would be reversed. My understanding is the wider the separation the better top end and lower separation is better low and mid range. Or is this only going to show up on the dyno/track? Or is the reason because of the greater lift?
I'm comparing it to the Comp Cams CL11-246-3 The Advertised Durations are damn close but the lift on the Comp is .052/.055 higher. Please explain: if the Lobe separation is 114 on the Summit and 110 on the Comp why the operating ranges are Summit 2200-4500, Comp 1800-6000? I thought these would be reversed. My understanding is the wider the separation the better top end and lower separation is better low and mid range. Or is this only going to show up on the dyno/track? Or is the reason because of the greater lift?
Suggest some quoted ranges are chosen/stated somewhat arbitrarily ... but as you suspected ... more cam lets it breath more easily so it can more easily run higher rpm. Sum1301 500/500 218/228 ... Comp246 552/555 230/236 ... roughly 0.050" more lift & 10* more dur. Suggest Sum1302 (540/540 228/238) compares more closely to Comp246 than does 1301.
