A strange cooling problem!!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
A strange cooling problem!!
My car was running on a 30 AF/70 Water mix with no thermostat and stock water pump a Dewitt's radiator/fans combo and things seems to be fine .. well, With A/C on and in a 95F day it will go upto 205-210 and it will just stay there, I think its just alittle more warm but still a manageable temp.
Now I purchased two cans of 40 Below additive and a Robertshow high performance 160* thermostat and installed them today with %100 distilled water only (no AF) which should be much more effcient, well, it wasnt! .. in a matter of fact, it wasnt at all! When I took it for a drive the temp stayed right at 200F for a 15 min or so, then it went up slowly till it reached 230 and it was still climbing! Thats really weird! The %100 water coolant with 40 below did nothing better and adding the thermostat took the temps too high up! or maybe the 40 below additive actually rised my temp?! god knows! is my water pump is not capable of circulating enough water with the thermostat in? especially if I have the larger Dewitt's aluminum radiator.
Any suggestions?
Now I purchased two cans of 40 Below additive and a Robertshow high performance 160* thermostat and installed them today with %100 distilled water only (no AF) which should be much more effcient, well, it wasnt! .. in a matter of fact, it wasnt at all! When I took it for a drive the temp stayed right at 200F for a 15 min or so, then it went up slowly till it reached 230 and it was still climbing! Thats really weird! The %100 water coolant with 40 below did nothing better and adding the thermostat took the temps too high up! or maybe the 40 below additive actually rised my temp?! god knows! is my water pump is not capable of circulating enough water with the thermostat in? especially if I have the larger Dewitt's aluminum radiator.
Any suggestions?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
Well, if the only changes you made were the t-stat and juice then I would say the pump should not have been affected. I would suspect air in the system, did you drill the t-stat to make sure all the air got out?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
No I didnt drill it, its a high performance one and has no place to drill a hole like the ordinary one. I did put some more coolant when while engine is running and thermostat opened. I hope its only an air pockets issue. The car was on the drive way and the nose was little bit higher then the end, maybe it adds to the possibility of air in the system.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 27
From: Florida
No I didnt drill it, its a high performance one and has no place to drill a hole like the ordinary one. I did put some more coolant when while engine is running and thermostat opened. I hope its only an air pockets issue. The car was on the drive way and the nose was little bit higher then the end, maybe it adds to the possibility of air in the system.
This is where you drill your Robert Shaw tstat.
Also read this post. It has been at least in the low 90's here for a month or two. Test your gauge.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...3&postcount=20
Since you have a new better radiator than I have, that doesn't leave much else, either an engine with coolant passages crudded up or a poorly operating water pump.
If you diagnose to the pump, I would suggest a Stewarts. Plenty of info on their site.
http://www.stewartcomponents.com/
Haven't used below 40, but have used WaterWetter with never a problem.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
Thanks noonie for the info. Today I opened the cap and noticed there was no coolant in the exp. tank, so I added some distilled water and then started the engine and parked the car having the nose down the slope in the driveway, I waited till the temp. went up and saw no difference in the level even after the thermostat opened, just a few small air bubbles came out, but no coolant level decrease. I took it for a test drive and it seems a little better than yesterday, I was driving at some high speeds (50-70 MPH) with engine RPMs between 2000-2500 for 45 minutes around town, when I came home I pointed the IR thermometer to the thermostat housing and got a reading of about 215F while engine was still running and A/C on.
One thing that I cant explain is, when I drive for the first 15 min or so the temp meter will point right on 200* mark, then it will fast go up to 210* in a few minuts, and will continue to rise slowly to go bewond that till I slow down and keep the engine below 1500 or so RPM where temp will go back to 210*. Is that seems like a timing problem?
One thing that I cant explain is, when I drive for the first 15 min or so the temp meter will point right on 200* mark, then it will fast go up to 210* in a few minuts, and will continue to rise slowly to go bewond that till I slow down and keep the engine below 1500 or so RPM where temp will go back to 210*. Is that seems like a timing problem?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
UPDATE :
I just checked the timing, its 10* initial at idle and will rise to 25* to 2000 RPM and will stay there, it sounds not correct, but do you think it has something to do with the above problem?
I just checked the timing, its 10* initial at idle and will rise to 25* to 2000 RPM and will stay there, it sounds not correct, but do you think it has something to do with the above problem?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 27
From: Florida
didn't realize you had a BB.
On a system with an adequate sized cooling system the timing won't make a lot of difference in running temp.
Under extreme conditions, which you may have, retarded timing will put it over the top.
Try setting the timing to 36° at rpm and forget about it at idle as long as it starts easily. Try your vacumn on full idle vacumn.
How many miles on your engine or is it a fresh engine?
Post a pic of your engine compartment showing the radiator and/or the expansion/recovery tank.
What temp are your spals set to come on?
What is the temp of the lower hose when you are running too hot?
What rating is the pressure cap?
I just looked up the temps in Qatar
http://www.worldweather.org/116/c00221f.htm#climate
Do you have you r heater hooked up?
Your lows are like ours and I don't use one.
On a system with an adequate sized cooling system the timing won't make a lot of difference in running temp.
Under extreme conditions, which you may have, retarded timing will put it over the top.
Try setting the timing to 36° at rpm and forget about it at idle as long as it starts easily. Try your vacumn on full idle vacumn.
How many miles on your engine or is it a fresh engine?
Post a pic of your engine compartment showing the radiator and/or the expansion/recovery tank.
What temp are your spals set to come on?
What is the temp of the lower hose when you are running too hot?
What rating is the pressure cap?
I just looked up the temps in Qatar
http://www.worldweather.org/116/c00221f.htm#climate
Do you have you r heater hooked up?
Your lows are like ours and I don't use one.
Last edited by noonie; Aug 29, 2007 at 10:10 PM.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
I will try to advance the timing to 36*. I have a mallory unilite with no vacuum advance, I think I should set the maximum advance from inside somehow, I never been in that but I will just rotate the whole thing to get the 36* total timing as you mentioned.
The engine was rebuilt long time back and have 10,000 miles since then.It was rebuilt 2 owners back so I dont know much about it except he installed a comp cams 268H and a set or comp cams roller rockers. ITs working quite good except for a little blue-ish smoke on hard accelerations.
The spals will switch on at 195 and off at 185.
I will check the lower hose temp and the pressure cap rating and include a picture of the engine compartment when I get back home from work.
Thanks alot noonie for your walk through, I really appreciate it.
Hamad
The engine was rebuilt long time back and have 10,000 miles since then.It was rebuilt 2 owners back so I dont know much about it except he installed a comp cams 268H and a set or comp cams roller rockers. ITs working quite good except for a little blue-ish smoke on hard accelerations.
The spals will switch on at 195 and off at 185.
I will check the lower hose temp and the pressure cap rating and include a picture of the engine compartment when I get back home from work.
Thanks alot noonie for your walk through, I really appreciate it.
Hamad
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
My only comment is, in summer here in Jax/NE Florida, is I have NO LUCK AT ALL with ANY thermostat in my '72 SBlock here, NONE, I run with NO stat in summer, and a 160 in winter with holes in it...NEW...they do'nt ever seem to like the second season for some reason...cheeeep POS they are....
having that little extra flow restriction in that housing causes hotter running in summer every damn time....or the thing will not open untiill the temps are say 220f+ then it finally opens....some such mess up....
I have noticed this on countless vechicles over the years, V8 Pontiacs, Dodge 318 like my work van, etc...crazy but true, so my recommendation is toss the stat, frankly in that climate i'ts hard to imaging you ever needing a stat....
having that little extra flow restriction in that housing causes hotter running in summer every damn time....or the thing will not open untiill the temps are say 220f+ then it finally opens....some such mess up....
I have noticed this on countless vechicles over the years, V8 Pontiacs, Dodge 318 like my work van, etc...crazy but true, so my recommendation is toss the stat, frankly in that climate i'ts hard to imaging you ever needing a stat....
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
The only problem when removing the thermostat is that the engine will take long time to get warm and I heard once that its not good idea to let the engine warm slowly.
I will take out the thermostat today and drill a hole and see what I will get. Also I will try to advance the timing a little.
noonie, the cap is rated at 230 - 16 lbs. Here is the pictures of the radiator setup, click to enlarge :
I will take out the thermostat today and drill a hole and see what I will get. Also I will try to advance the timing a little.
noonie, the cap is rated at 230 - 16 lbs. Here is the pictures of the radiator setup, click to enlarge :
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,897
Likes: 0
From: Moon Township PA
I can't comment on the heating issues but you should be aware that adding straight 100% distilled water is not usually considered a normal thing to do. I don't clearly remember the chemistry involved but I have notes stating that the distilled water should be used with antifreeze. Some of my notes suggest that since distilled water contains no minerals or other contaminants, it will pull material into solution (from the block or other components?) until an equilibrium is reached.
I don't know why you think that distilled water is a better coolant than antifreeze/water mixture. With only water in your cooling system, you are running the chance of encouraging corrosion since most antifreeze contains an anti-corrosion agent.
Gary
I don't know why you think that distilled water is a better coolant than antifreeze/water mixture. With only water in your cooling system, you are running the chance of encouraging corrosion since most antifreeze contains an anti-corrosion agent.
Gary
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
Gary, I used 100% water because its more efficient to transfer the heat. Thats what I always hear.
noonie : My heater is totaly elemenated, and I plugged the nipples both in the intake and the exp. tank. Here are some more pics :
noonie : My heater is totaly elemenated, and I plugged the nipples both in the intake and the exp. tank. Here are some more pics :
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
I reset the timing to 36* total and 14* initial. Had the car for a test drive in a 105F afternoon, it seems no big difference, I didnt drive for much though.
I checked the thermostat housing temp and it was 210F, the upper hose was 185 right on the radiator inlet, and it was about 215F on the lower hose, I couldnt reach it so I took it off the middle metal section.
Is that indicates anything?
I checked the thermostat housing temp and it was 210F, the upper hose was 185 right on the radiator inlet, and it was about 215F on the lower hose, I couldnt reach it so I took it off the middle metal section.
Is that indicates anything?
Last edited by HamadUP; Sep 1, 2007 at 11:42 AM.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 647
Likes: 22
From: Norwalk CT and Boynton Beach FL
These cars are bottom breathers and the lower front spoiler is necessary to scoop up air from below and direct it to the radiator. If the lower front spoiler is not there are damaged and/or if the radiator is not sealed up properly with all the necessary foam pads, you won't be getting sufficient air being forced through the radiator to do adequate cooling. Also DR Rebuild sell a kit which expands the size of thr front spoiler so more air is scooped up ---- I installed this spoiler extended on my C3 and it knocked 7 deg off the operating temp
Just a couple of thoughts ---- but I don't have a BB which generates lots of heat
Just a couple of thoughts ---- but I don't have a BB which generates lots of heat
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
I reset the timing to 36* total and 14* initial. Had the car for a test drive in a 105F afternoon, it seems no big difference, I didnt drive for much though.
I checked the thermostat housing temp and it was 210F, the upper hose was 185 right on the radiator inlet, and it was about 215F on the lower hose, I couldnt reach it so I took it off the middle metal section.
Is that indicates anything?
I checked the thermostat housing temp and it was 210F, the upper hose was 185 right on the radiator inlet, and it was about 215F on the lower hose, I couldnt reach it so I took it off the middle metal section.
Is that indicates anything?
Last edited by rihwoods; Sep 1, 2007 at 12:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 13
From: Doha
St. Jude Donor '08
The radiator is a brand new Dewitt's aluminum. Also I didnt see any collapsing when I rev the engine. Maybe its water pump problem?
Still I am not quite sure of the lower hose reading, as I couldnt reach it properly. I will try to take the temp off the radiator outlet tube and get the results here today.
Still I am not quite sure of the lower hose reading, as I couldnt reach it properly. I will try to take the temp off the radiator outlet tube and get the results here today.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
The radiator is a brand new Dewitt's aluminum. Also I didnt see any collapsing when I rev the engine. Maybe its water pump problem?
Still I am not quite sure of the lower hose reading, as I couldnt reach it properly. I will try to take the temp off the radiator outlet tube and get the results here today.
Still I am not quite sure of the lower hose reading, as I couldnt reach it properly. I will try to take the temp off the radiator outlet tube and get the results here today.
In any case,try to get a good reading on the lower hose..maybe you can get it from underneath...you definatly need to verify the temperature diferential between upper/lower hoses...
Also,these temp guns do not give accurate readings off bright metal,such as chrome...stick to hose readings and avoid reading hose clamps...
Let us know what you get...
Rich