builderdarin

Hello everyone,
I've pulled my engine. A stock 350 short block the previous owner installed with the stock original heads. I found very little wear (except the heads) I've decided to build a 383 stroker. I'm having a lot of troble choosing my parts. I've been reading and studying and have just about locked in my choices. And would apreciate some opinions. This is strictly a street driven car that I want to cruise a couple hours a time in sometimes. I've decided to keep the tall stock 308 gear and 400 turbo transmission so I need to build torque not RPM's and I think I will still need a stall converter.

The following is the current build I'm contimplating building

Block:
Bore 30 over and hone to match the pistons
cut deck to 9.00 for a zero deck heigth and quinch to equal head gasket thickness

rotating assembly:
Eagle cast crank 3.75" stroke
forged I beam rods full floating 5.7"
speed pro hyper pistons 12cc dish
supplier will ballance and provide balance sheet, dampner and flexplate

heads:
Not quite settled on brand but
aluminum
angled plugs (Ithink best for hooker headers)
195cc
1.6 and 2.02
roller rockers


Cam:
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...64&lvl=2&prt=5

Already have:
Hooker headers w/ sidepipes
Edelbr performer intake
msd ignition
Quadrajet on it's way to Lars

I was tempted to use flat top non dished pistons but I ran the compression calculations and decided the dish would be better

head volume: 64
piston head volume: 12
Gasket thickness: .038
Gasket bore: 4.060 (couldn't find a 4.30)
cylinder bore 4.03
deck clearance 0
stroke 3.75

rod length 5.7
intake closing point 61

Static ratio: 10.38
dynamic: 8.525

I plan to buy the rotating assembly and heads measure all, including volumes them have maching done to the block
Am I on the right track?? Could anyone estimate the HP and torque. Has anyone else done a simmilar engine?

Thanks
Darin

L88Plus

Sounds like you're on the right track.
Check out Trick Flow's 23* head. They can be found used for $500 - $600 a pair, they're aluminum and 195cc runners. Use the money you save to upgrade to a hydraulic roller cam - never a worry about a flat lobe, swap cams whenever you want to and don't worry about a break-in disaster. If you have an earlier block, it's about a straight swap for someone with an OEM hydraulic roller block. That'll save you a few hundred bucks there since you can buy new OEM hydraulic roller lifters for under $100 a set and cams are $200 and less all over the place.
Pick your cam according to what you plan to do with the car plus what you want it to sound like. It's possible to build one that sounds mean at idle but still has a flat torque curve, just gotta know what you're doing.
Good luck, sounds like you're on the right track.

ratflinger

Why don't you build a 396 instead? More torque. Machining costs will be the same. Eagle makes the kit, fully balanced, but it is all forged. I'd suggest 74cc heads, flat top pistons, & 6" rods. If you haven't found a 4.030 head gasket, then you haven't looked hard enough, got mine from Summit. Decking at +.010 will give you a CR of 9.9 so a zero deck will increase that a little. I'd go with AFR 195 Street Eliminators. This set up DynoSims (for what it's worth) at 500+ hp/tq

builderdarin

L88pluss,
Unfortunately my block is to early for stock HY roller lifters or a one piece rear seal. I started down that road looking at retrofit hydraulics but decided the gain might not justify the cost$$. I may revisit that though, I didn't think of the benefit of changing cams and no wear patterns. Keep your eye open for me a set of trick flows for $600 I was looking at the Ebay "Patriots" but the forum guys here give them the thumbs down, even though a local drag racer looked them over and said I should give em a try!
Ratflinger,
Another combo to look into!!! I'm tempted to just say nahh but I will give it some research. I worry about forged piston due to logevity isues/rummors, I'm hearing and it seems like overkill for my needs and budget. I just glanced around for a 4.03 gasket and decided it must not exist but I'm glad to hear it can be had. With the flat tops I was way high on SC but if I do go with the 12cc dish I wont want to give any Comp away to the gasket

Thanks guys, anyone else! Is there a free dyno program I could plug this into and play with cam choices or could anyone recomend one I should buy

CorvetteDave01

I definitely would go 396 instead of a 383, should be about the same cost.

Also, be careful getting used heads, because you could easily run into the same or more on cost over a ready to go set of new heads. I would look into the AFR Eliminator 195 or 210 heads if you go 396. There are quite a few motor builds on their website you can read up on as well to possibly get a good combination to go with your intake.

63mako

Even with a 383. Flat top pistons, 6" rods, 74 CC AFR heads.
Hyper pistons would NOT be my choice. There are low expansion forged pistons available that would be a much better choice for an engine that has over 8.5 DCR.
Your cam choice has pretty low lift numbers for the duration.

gtexas

Big block parts cost allot more than small block,,, The weigh allot more, They don't turn the RPM of a small block,, The get hotter and its hard enough to keep a small block cool in a vette...

Stick with the 383 ...I would never build a 396,,, 454? Sure but a 396 isn't worth the gain over a 383 or 400 small block.

If your going to build a big block,, build a big one! 454!! 502!!Big Block Stroker!!!

jackson

Do NOT zero-deck ... leave about 0.010" ... run GM 0.028" (5.8cc)composition gasket 10105117 with aluminum head ... then if you ever need to level block again you can & run any of the thicker gaskets. I agree with dish & 64cc on street 383. If you're gonna run a 5.7 rod w/ 383 ... SpeedPro has another nice hyper piston H890CP that has a -23cc reverse dome but it'd put you at about 9.26:1 scr. You'll probably need higher stall w/ that wolverine blue racer cam ... w/ 1.6:1 rar, you'd see about .521"/.544" 236*/246*.

builderdarin

The 396 build has some serious advantages (I'm as more power Tim Taylor as the next guy) but its not the same money. The rotating asssembly is nearly double! I'm paying atention here, and respectfully know that you guys know more about this than me, but I think I want to stick with the 383. That being said if the forged pistons and crank are really something I need then the 396 isn't much more! But I thought for an on the street no nitrous motor a cast crank and hyper pistons were pretty darn good,, for the money..Maybe I need to get my dynamic ratio down if I want to use hyper pistons? I thought 8.5 was a pretty good number if not whats a good rule of thumb I should shoot for? The more I think I learn the more complicated this gets Is there anyone else running a 383 with 64cc Alum heads? Should I look for more lift in a cam or use 1.6 rockers? My head hurts this is too much

Hey Jackson now thats good advise I can use "leaving .010 and running a thinner gasket just in case" Do you think I'll need the 1.6:1 how does that effect dynamic?

Darin

TXShark

When I did my motor (383 with Vortec Heads and a mild cam), I used Desktop Dyno to play with different components. I got the program from a friend, but it would worth the few extra bucks to buy it and design your engine that way. Worked well for me, and mine does exactly what I want it to, and the dyno on the program matched the real dyno on the motor. Pretty cool.

69vettester

Interesting Thread..
I have a 383 Hyd. roller engine. The short block came with 12cc dished Hyp. pistons, .012 in the hole. I used a .015 Thick gasket Fel. #1094 to boost the CR to Maybe 9.6 and used 1.6 ratio roller rockers.
I use Brodix IK200's, 64cc , but the AFR 195cc Eliminator's would be very nice If you dont have to wait 6weeks for them. anyway ,I wouldnt go Higher than 200cc heads without milling .025 Thou. to get up around 10.1 CR. You might end up with a big winded dog engine otherwise .

gkull

These posters are talking about 396 ci small blocks using 3.875 stroker crank. 383 is 4.030X3.750. Years ago before i knew better I owned a 391 ci 3.800 externally balanced

billla

Looks like a great, well-thought-out combo. A few comments...

• Go with 6" rods since you're buying new - there's just no reason not to and there are significant benefits.
• The comment regarding deck height is fair, but I always zero-deck my engines. If you plan to run a thin gasket, you need to advise your machine shop as this requires a significantly smoother deck and head surface.
• You don't need a forged crank or pistons for these power levels as long as you observe (enforce ) a reasonable rev limit of 5500 or so. Note that a hypereutectic can only take maybe a 50 or 75HP NOS shot should you head that direction
• I'd spend a bit of time looking over your cam choice - I think there are better choices with a bit of research. As noted, I sure wouldn't rule out a roller cam unless your budget just won't allow it.

I ran a quick DD for fun using the AFR 195 Street heads. I expected to see around 375-400HP, but was a bit surprised with the results. DD is generally a bit optimistic with HP (5% or so) and very optimistic with torque (10% or so), so I'd be careful using these as guidance. With due resepct to ratflinger, 195cc heads are not going to deliver 500 HP Note that this was done with small-tube headers and mufflers.

billla

Just a side note - the new bare blocks from GM, both 1- and 2-piece rear seals now have the factory roller retainer bosses cast in and of course the 1-piece seal blocks are readily available at your local junkyard as noted.

Summit's price for the factory lifter setup is around $235 (link below). Note that the factory setup is limited to .525 lift. Aftermarket retrofit lifters are longer to allow more lift. The factory HOTCAM, which is not a bad cam at all, is around $215.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

CorvetteDave01

If you found a fairly low mileage, 1-piece main/roller block, you could probably reuse the lifters? I thought seriously about getting one of these blocks because of the roller lifter ability. Roller cams seem to be a lot better option than the flat tappets, seems like the advances with these cams and head design over the last 15 years or so are the key to getting a lot more streetable hp/tq over older designs.

BKbroiler

Since you said you're looking for torque, not rpm's, I think your cam might be a little too hot. With the 3.08 gear, less lift and duration will put your power closer to where the engine is operating most of the time.You definitely don't need 1.6 rockers.

billla

CarCraft had a great article on this in this month's issue - since we don't run into the same wear pattern issues as flat-tappets, as long as they're free-turning and not pitted they're good to go.

jackson

No I don't ... actually, I think a cam that's a step or two down would be better. Like sticking in a bigger cam, going from 1.5 to 1.6:1 rar on same cam install will lower DCR somewhat. Your basic choice of cast/hyper is fine for what it appears you're trying to do ... IMHO it doesn't seem to warrant the expense of forged nor 396. Fewer cheaper piston choices that're both dished & for 6" rods ... even fewer cast cranks bigger than 3.75". Flattops & Larger Chambers might be a better choice ... flattops cheaper ... -5 & 74 combo could yield a bit less scr. BTW, some years ago I built a ext bal 388 w/ scat CAST 3.800" crank ... it was fine for a hot street motor ... but I doubt CAST 3.8 remains in routine production. Granted internal better, but don't get too hung up on it for street motor. BTW, ALL iron head 305 & 350 since 1986 have OE counterbalanced flexplate/flywheel ... external on back & neutral on front ... ALL 3 of current GMPP circle track crates & majority of other current GMPP crates are configured same way.

Also, I'm not any sort of guru ... nor a mindreader ... but I did observe: it seems from your choice of cast/hyper parts & wolverine cam you're planning a budget build ... if so, roller cam & forged crank/pistons probably not in cards. Correct me if need be.

builderdarin

I really apreciate the help everyone.

Billa
I read some of your posts elsewhere last night and was hoping you would chime in with a chart or two. Thanks a lot. It seams that my real decisions left to make are exact cam choice and weather it will be roller or not, and head brand. Could you run a couple more cam's for me in the same setup? Maybe try to see what benifit would come from the hyd roller setup. I could be wronge but it seams to me more aggresive lift derived from a hydraulic roller setup will have more effect on high rpm than low end power it would be real interesting to see. I'm sure you would know more about cam chioces to try than me. I think I also saw a dyno run you did that used the patriot or pro-comp heads, use those instead of the AFR if you have a file for them even though if I spend for really good heads AFR is my choice. I'm aware of the benift of 6" rods, problem is I've got a rotating assembly picked out priced shiped and ballanced with the flexplate and harmonic for $750.00... thats hard to pass up

Jackson
your absolutly correct it's a budget build, if money was no object then I have some other builds maped out. The 421 stroker was my favorite I'm trying to get the most for my dollar on this project but I don't want to be to cheap.

billla

I'd be happy to do a little more DD work; I think combined with the expertise on this board/thread you can make a good choice. Let me do a little work this weekend (slammed for the rest of this week).

As noted in my post and by other folks on the thread, I think a smaller cam is a Good Thing for your usage and budget. I wouldn't lose any sleep over a flat-tappet cam - if a roller's not in the budget make that decision and move on

I also wouldn't lose any sleep over 5.7 vs. 6.0 rods - if you can, great if you can't not a big deal, especially at this build level. Can you share what your rotating ***'y is?