Confused about fan wiring.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Confused about fan wiring.
Here we have a Ford Taurus fan I want to use for my Vette. It's a puller fan, with the same motor as a MarkVIII fan. It has a shroud and fan diameter about an inch smaller than the MarkVIII fan.
What's confusing me is the wiring. There are three wires coming from the plug. All black. One solid black, one with an orange stripe, and one with a yellow stripe.
I'm guessing the black is ground, and you see it splits and goes down into the motor housing from the other side as well.
The black and yellow stays at the top of the motor and the black and orange follows the split ground to the bottom.
When hooking this fan motor up will will have a power wire coming from the controller and a ground.
Which of the two, orange and yellow, are the power wires I will need to use if not both? Will I use both? I'm guessing it's a variable speed fan and that both energize the motor but from different sides.
Should I just splice them together as one power wire?
Thanks.
What's confusing me is the wiring. There are three wires coming from the plug. All black. One solid black, one with an orange stripe, and one with a yellow stripe.
I'm guessing the black is ground, and you see it splits and goes down into the motor housing from the other side as well.
The black and yellow stays at the top of the motor and the black and orange follows the split ground to the bottom.
When hooking this fan motor up will will have a power wire coming from the controller and a ground.
Which of the two, orange and yellow, are the power wires I will need to use if not both? Will I use both? I'm guessing it's a variable speed fan and that both energize the motor but from different sides.
Should I just splice them together as one power wire?
Thanks.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
Use the black for ground and test each of the other 2 wires with 12v to see what it does, I figure its a 2 speed fan. but no telling if it uses both wires or just 1 for each speed. Test it on a battery and see what it does
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
IF it was indeed a 2 speed fan, I would be very surprised to find the other speed coming outta the motor from another spot....
I have to assume that is a sensor of some type....maybe check with a DVM as to who is home....for one thing most motors are permanent magnet these daze so you can just hang the dvm off the wires in question flip the blades and see who generates voltage....THAT is your motor armature....
black to ground, the other wire going into the motor is for sure ONE power lead....still bet the other is a sensor .....
I have to assume that is a sensor of some type....maybe check with a DVM as to who is home....for one thing most motors are permanent magnet these daze so you can just hang the dvm off the wires in question flip the blades and see who generates voltage....THAT is your motor armature....
black to ground, the other wire going into the motor is for sure ONE power lead....still bet the other is a sensor .....
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
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From: Columbia Missouri
Does it matter which way the blade is spinning? It's a directional fan blade and usually the brushes are designed to work best when spun one way. If spun backwards they wear very fast. Would it still generate voltage spun in both directions?
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
From: Nottingham
Seems like it might be a fan speed sensor - is this setup normally PWM driven? That might be the feedback. That said it looks a bit thick to be a sensor wire, almost looks like another power feed, by the gauge. Or that may just be my eyes!
Common sense tells me the black/yellow is the main power simply because it heads into the centre of the motor pack. Can you not see exactly where this orange fella goes?
Gene's method of spinning the motor and checking for a voltage is nice.
That should tell you for sure which one's the motor feed, but like I say I'd bet you, oooh, at least a quid its the yellow one.
Definitive answer = wiring diagram for a Taurus!
Common sense tells me the black/yellow is the main power simply because it heads into the centre of the motor pack. Can you not see exactly where this orange fella goes?
Gene's method of spinning the motor and checking for a voltage is nice.
That should tell you for sure which one's the motor feed, but like I say I'd bet you, oooh, at least a quid its the yellow one.
Definitive answer = wiring diagram for a Taurus!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
What happens if I spin the fan and test for voltage and they both have voltage. Does that mean they are both power wires and I should splice them together? I will be using a PWM controller but the power wire to the fan is a single, not a pair.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Columbia Missouri
Okay, both are power wires. One is high speed and one is low speed.
This complicates things. Do I splice them together or just use only high speed once I figure out which one that is?
This complicates things. Do I splice them together or just use only high speed once I figure out which one that is?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
More info. The yellow/black is the high speed wire and this is the only one used. If you splice the orange/black to the yellow/black it will spin faster than slow but slower than fast...if that makes sense.
This means that no matter the controller, only the yellow/black will be used.
Thanks for the help.
This means that no matter the controller, only the yellow/black will be used.
Thanks for the help.
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Michael S. Palmer
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
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From: Orange Park Florida
DO NOT splice them together, instant smoke.....
only ONE or the other depending.....
wonder why they bothered....need fast speed for any a/c work, need fast speed for off freeway into traffic mode....can't see the need for any slo speed, ever....got me on that one....
just as I can't see the need for a variable speed contoller,
I can see the need for a current limiting series resistor to mediate the surge to the alt when the fans turn on...but WTF, it's ok on MY car....
so let it surge....
so far for last 8 months or so, everyone seems happy enough even here in Florida....
only ONE or the other depending.....
wonder why they bothered....need fast speed for any a/c work, need fast speed for off freeway into traffic mode....can't see the need for any slo speed, ever....got me on that one....
just as I can't see the need for a variable speed contoller,
I can see the need for a current limiting series resistor to mediate the surge to the alt when the fans turn on...but WTF, it's ok on MY car....
so let it surge....
so far for last 8 months or so, everyone seems happy enough even here in Florida....
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 1
Ford fans are conventional, run of the mill, 12vdc, 2 wire fans (not sure what you mean by "I'm guessing it's a variable speed fan and that both energize the motor but from different sides")
. They are controlled by the PCM. theoUK has it right, the 2 wires going into the motor are the two wires you need.If you are going to do these Ebay conversions, you should get a manual to see how it's wired. Ebay has those also.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I didn't get the fan off of Ebay I got it out of a salvage yard.
Also, the information I was posting above is what I read off of other forums written by guys that have installed these fans and done the wiring. Some didn't work and some did work. One guy, who installed it in a Jeep, said that the Yellow provided the fastest speed. The orange was slower. If you spliced them together as one power wire it was in essence a medium speed. I have no idea why or how it's wired...that's kind of why I posted this thread in the first place.
DB - There is something inherintly wrong with using a Ford fan on a Chevy!!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 2
From: North NJ
I'm running a ford MK8 fan on my big block. Working out the wiring tonight and tomorrow. These damn Ford engineers sure liked to make things as confusing as possible.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
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From: Columbia Missouri
I really don't care that it's a Ford fan. It moves just as much air as dual Spals, it has it's own shroud, it fits a Corvette radiator very well, and it only cost me $25 or so from a salvage yard.
Maybe Ford just used very efficient single fans.
Maybe Ford just used very efficient single fans.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Matt, can you post a pix of just how that fan fits the vette rad??
nice if you could do it outta the car, is not, top/sides/bottom, I kind of curious as to it's performance in the car too, what engine you have, and how it behaves on the freeway at say 80, what tranny/gears you have .....but weather is quite a bit cooler now, so I suspect nothing wuld be a fair comparo to the 100f weather we endured last summer....
I ask about freeway speeds on account of the spals have those rubber flapper doors in there for passing increased air at high speeds, but they close for fan suction when stopped/slo.....
nice if you could do it outta the car, is not, top/sides/bottom, I kind of curious as to it's performance in the car too, what engine you have, and how it behaves on the freeway at say 80, what tranny/gears you have .....but weather is quite a bit cooler now, so I suspect nothing wuld be a fair comparo to the 100f weather we endured last summer....
I ask about freeway speeds on account of the spals have those rubber flapper doors in there for passing increased air at high speeds, but they close for fan suction when stopped/slo.....
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Matt, can you post a pix of just how that fan fits the vette rad??
nice if you could do it outta the car, is not, top/sides/bottom, I kind of curious as to it's performance in the car too, what engine you have, and how it behaves on the freeway at say 80, what tranny/gears you have .....but weather is quite a bit cooler now, so I suspect nothing wuld be a fair comparo to the 100f weather we endured last summer....
I ask about freeway speeds on account of the spals have those rubber flapper doors in there for passing increased air at high speeds, but they close for fan suction when stopped/slo.....
nice if you could do it outta the car, is not, top/sides/bottom, I kind of curious as to it's performance in the car too, what engine you have, and how it behaves on the freeway at say 80, what tranny/gears you have .....but weather is quite a bit cooler now, so I suspect nothing wuld be a fair comparo to the 100f weather we endured last summer....
I ask about freeway speeds on account of the spals have those rubber flapper doors in there for passing increased air at high speeds, but they close for fan suction when stopped/slo.....
I will post pics as I get further along in the install. I'll start a new thread for it so just keep a watch out for it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,117
Likes: 104
From: charlotte north carolina
db
how about using a standard 5 pin relay(2 coil, one normally closed, one normally open, one input common) wire slow speed to n/c and high to n/o. that way when the coil is not energized, it will run on slow, and when energized it will run on high. use other controller to turn it completely off. did this on my spal unit (blue wire override feature for when the a/c is used) to turn the fans on when it runs hot.
jeff
how about using a standard 5 pin relay(2 coil, one normally closed, one normally open, one input common) wire slow speed to n/c and high to n/o. that way when the coil is not energized, it will run on slow, and when energized it will run on high. use other controller to turn it completely off. did this on my spal unit (blue wire override feature for when the a/c is used) to turn the fans on when it runs hot.
jeff
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
db
how about using a standard 5 pin relay(2 coil, one normally closed, one normally open, one input common) wire slow speed to n/c and high to n/o. that way when the coil is not energized, it will run on slow, and when energized it will run on high. use other controller to turn it completely off. did this on my spal unit (blue wire override feature for when the a/c is used) to turn the fans on when it runs hot.
jeff
how about using a standard 5 pin relay(2 coil, one normally closed, one normally open, one input common) wire slow speed to n/c and high to n/o. that way when the coil is not energized, it will run on slow, and when energized it will run on high. use other controller to turn it completely off. did this on my spal unit (blue wire override feature for when the a/c is used) to turn the fans on when it runs hot.
jeff
I actually have a DCC PWM controller to use, and it will vary the fan speed based on temp. I almost used your very same idea with the relays but decided to go with a DCC for ultimate control.
I was really just confused about the wiring Ford set this fan up with and didn't understand the purpose of the two power wires.
Knowing the yellow is the high speed wire is key. That's the power wire the controller will run to.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Racer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Mooresville NC
Ok i just got 2 dual fans from a newer taurus and am wondering what relay to buy. I thought about just having one come on when the car is on, and one to a switch , or maybe to a temp relay but where to buy these for a decent price?