Looking to replace callipers on 78 Pace car with L48. VB&P has many different ones listed but am not sure what the differances are. O-ring, lip seal, with insulators.... Do not drive that much so car does sit. Also should I replace rotors if so what are some of the better ones out their, have seen Pro Stop slotted and drilled but am looking for suggestions!

 

You will get many suggestions. Do you plan on keeping the vehicle stock? If not a lot of forum members use larger rotors w/willwood calipers. Some use aluminum calipers with stainless steel sleeves.
I'm going the C5 route.

 

I guess stock, have not thought about other options. I do not want to break the bank with this project I have other things that need to be done. Want the most bang for my buck!

 

You need a set of O-ring Calipers w/o the insulators,, Stock uses the metal pistons w/o insulators,, they are fine for street and light strip use. DO NOT change or REMOVE your disks, unless you need to. If you MUST remove your disks, mark the stud and hole on the rotor and re-assemble them the way they came off. If you do change them, they must be shimmed to < 0.005" runout to prevent air pumping into the lines. Corvette brakes are unique and can be a PITA if disturbed from thier factory setup, if not correctly re-assembled. Ask me how i know,, on second thought, pease do not.

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=77063

 

Thanks RunningMan373, you said not to remove disk, is this the rotor or some other part around hub?

 

Disk = rotor in this case. This what you need and it's on sale:


Name: 65-82, Corvette O-Ring Brake Kit
ID: 22200O

Category: C3 Corvettes 1968-82

Manufacturer: Vette Brakes & Products, Inc.

Desc: This kit is a very popular choice of a lot of our Corvette customers. Kit contains everything you need for a quality four wheel brake restoration Including Patented O-Ring Calipers.
Sale Price $429.95 $343.95
(Savings: $86.00)

 

Thanks Ratlinger,

 

If you want to remain stock then don’t change to O-ring seals. Here some reading info on why Zora chose the lip seal design.

http://www.duntovmotors.com/CaliperSchool.htm

The department of transportation's rule on Corvette rotors minimum thickness is 1.215’’, which is why as a rule you don’t turn these rotors you just replace them. You don’t have to re-rivet the rotors onto the hub and you DONT have to shim them. Insulators are only necessary for serious road racing. The purpose of the piston insulators is to insulate the brake fluid from excessive heat build up from the rotors. We sell a kit with 4 rotors, 4 calipers, a car set of semi-metallic pads, 4 rubber brake hoses and SS trailing arm brake lines for $679.00. There is no core charge and the freight is free.

If you have any questions feel free to call at 972-243-3838


www.duntovmotors.com

 

You don't have to shim the rotors for runout? I bought some rotors from NAPA front and rear. My right front caliper is leaking. I'm unsure if If I had damaged the seal wrestling with trying to put the new pads in the caliper. The two screwdriver method as outlined in the service manual did not work well with me. I eventually made it happen but those springs behind the caliper are difficult to push back. I'm going with C5 brakes. They are easier to service. So all of the people that say you must check for runout and shim the rotors are misguided somehow? For the rear brakes it is not necessary to have the rotors turned to match the spindle so the calipers don't suck air? Don't get me wrong the C3 brake system is a pretty good system but I'm just tired of messing with it. Good write up about the floating piston caliper, I thought it read fixed caliper.

 

So your lip seal calipers don't suck air when the rotors have runout, which they will on a rotor change. At what point in runout do your rotors start to suck air?

 

Bold =

 

I didn't have to shim my rotors (not saying you don't have to sometimes, I just got lucky ), but my experience with the factory lip seals are not very good for cars that sit alot. EVERY spring I had the fun job of replacing at least one caliper after the car had been sitting all winter due to it leaking.

Since I changed to more modern calipers (SSBC on front & Wilwood on rear), no more leaks in over 5 years . I know you don't want to go big dollars with the rebuild, so I would definitely step up to the o-rings factory calipers if your car is not a daily driver.

 

car is not a daily driver but I have had break problems for a long time now and might start driving it every other week!

 

Are you the same company that used to be called FastCorvette?

 

Yes this is the company that used to be called Fast Corvette. I remember reading that write up back in 2003 when that was the name of this company.

 

Ok guys I am going to answer these one at a time.

1. "So all of the people that say you must check for run out and shim the rotors are misguided somehow?"

A: Yes, they are misguided. It’s always a good idea to check the installed rotors for run out. More than .007 run out will put air in your brakes. However, it is not the new rotors that cause run out, its your hub or spindle. If you have .004 run out at the end of the hub, you’re going to have .007 or .008 at the end of the rotor. After you remove the factory rivets the hubs need to be at least cleaned thoroughly. We have an arbor we use to mount the hub on the mounted bearings and turn it so the run out is less then .003. These hubs were not always true out of the factory and they definitely were exposed to rust between the rotor and rivet for the last 30-40 years. Shimming the rotor is a band-aid.

2. "So your lip seal calipers don't suck air when the rotors have run out, which they will on a rotor change. At what point in run out do your rotors start to suck air?"

A: Both lip seal and o-ring calipers will suck air with excessive run out. I wouldn’t run more than .007 run out, ever. The problem with the o-ring design is the piston to wall clearance. When you are racing or just taking a hard turn your spindle is actually bending. This causes the rotor to change its angle with the caliper. The lip seal design has more room for deflection between the sleeve and the piston. The o-ring design has less clearance and thus they have had problems with the pistons cocking and sticking in the bore when in the previous mentioned conditions.

3."I didn't have to shim my rotors (not saying you don't have to sometimes, I just got lucky ), but my experience with the factory lip seals are not very good for cars that sit allot. EVERY spring I had the fun job of replacing at least one caliper after the car had been sitting all winter due to it leaking."

Reply: The lip seals are not perfect either. They require you to pump your brakes every 3-4 weeks. If you let them sit all winter they will leak. The o-ring seals don’t have this problem. At least it will give you an excuse to sit in your Corvette during the winter.

4. "Are you the same company that used to be called FastCorvette?"

A: Yes and no. The owner is the same, the management is new. There is not a single person working here currently, from FastCorvette. I am the manager and builder; you can reach anytime at 972-243-3838.

Edward Sevadjian

Duntov Motor Company

 

Good info. However, for me, I'm going with C5 brakes front and rear. Its (C3 brakes) not a bad brake system but I'm not fooling with it anymore. Same owner+new manager=new company name: Duntov Motor Company, Formerly Fast Corvette.

 

Fantastic!. Just got back from an extensive road test of my New rear O-ring calipers. 40 miles and 4 hard lock-up stops later, No noticeable loss in brake pedal position, good pressure, good braking. These replaced the rear set of lip seal calipers from SSBC, which are still on the fronts and are fine up there. Last time out, with the lip seal calipers on the rear, on return after the same run, had maybe 1" of pedal left, probably completely lost the rears in reality. So lip seals don't suck air, huh? Maybe your lip seals are better then SSBCs, i don't know, but i do know that the O-ring calipers on the rear work. You do need to eliminate run out, If your going to run lip seals, and that means shimming, saying you don't is not true, and will lead to the 2 gallons of used brake fluid I have sitting in the hall way right now. C.

ps- I'm mobile again!!!

 

 

A lot of opinions but the original question may not have been properly addressed.

If you are planning on street driving then all you need is a correctly setup stock brake system. It has been around since 1965 and has worked great- if done right. Corvette brake systems have been getting a bad rap for years from people who don't understand how they work. Could be the local dealership, garage, even corvette shop.

The calipers sold by most places these days are rebuilt and sold by Lone Star in TX. I have used a lot of them and they are fine. If there is a problem they correct it fast. So the thing is who will give you the best price on them. You'll have to shop around, I think I pay about $65-$70 for them.

Lip seal vs o ring. A lot of debate on this over the years. If you drive your car once a week, 4-5 tiems a month then the lip seals are fine. If you store the car for months- untouched, then maybe O rings will work. I have never needed to go to O rings on any of my cars. I have been around these cars since I was 5 and now 43 years later I have not required O rings. I'm not saying they're not good but with a correctly setup system I have not needed them.


For rotors, again a stock rotor is fine for the street. Save the slotted, drilled ones for the track. Most rotors are now imported, even the USA ones I wonder if they are 100% USA made?

Some come with the original rivet holes some do not. The BEST way to setup rotors is to fasten them to the spindles or hubs then kiss cut them and NOT remove them from the spindle. Most places are not setup to do this as a 14" or larger lathe is needed and the knowledge to use it is required.

The 2nd best setup is to fasten them with bolts and dial in the runout with shims. I have found runout in used and new rotors over .010" This was in the rotor. I tested rotors on a common spindle setup and found every one varied. Just using the lug nut to hold them on will change the runout every time they are tightened after rotating or replacing a wheel.

Runout. The GM spec is .005 max. Anything over that is no good- Period. I set my shimmed rotors to .002 or less. My procedures are fully documented and a simple search on the web will find them. Does this mean you have to follow them,no it's just another option for you to consider. Keep one thing in mind though, I wrote all my procedures directed for the car owner who wants to know how to do the job in his garage. I have no financial gain from writing and sharing this info that has worked for me all these years.

Good luck with your car. If you have .002 runout and bearing endplay between .0015-.003" max you'll have a great stopping vette. The only other thing I do is to bleed the system every 2 years because I still use DOT3 BF.