but, don't you have a 434 that constantly sees 7,000?

 

I have been following this thread and have some questions. I pulled the engine from my 81 to freshen it up and here is what I have found so far. Block 330817 400CI with 71-72 350 heads (3973487X) Flat top pistons with eyebrow for valve clearance. I don't know the stroke yet and haven't pulled the cam (hydraulic, flat tappet) What does this set up sound like to you and why did someone use these heads? I was told by JohnZ in the c1 forum that this is about 8.7 compression. I am looking to have a cruiser with good hp through a 200r4.

 

Yes, but I have a Motown block that is physically bigger and stronger than a stock 400 block.

I have built a bunch of stroker small blocks over the years. I put the limit at 3.875 for practical limit of small blocks. I have run half filled water jackets and splayed main caps in the past. It is just not worth the money and effort

 

Ahhh, I see.. I am sure that block will last you a long time!

 

SCR seems 'bout right if it were a 350"-355" ... but I see about 9.4 - 9.7:1scr w/ above flattop 400" 487X combo ... even more scr if heads/decks milled. They probably used those heads because they had em for relatively small $ ... unless you're going racing they'll be fine for a cruiser.

 

Couple of points of interest here:

The I beam (capscrew) rods with the shorter bolts tend to have more rod to cam clearance, like the Lunati Pro Mod/Manley Pro series, and their econo copy, the Scat 2-ICR6000-7/16, over the H beam rods. If you go with a roller cam, keep in mind it tends to have more clearance issues then flat tappets due to the broader lobe, so plan on a .900" base circle cam.

When you start bolting small chamber heads on a 406 the compression ratio jumps up quick! Zero deck and flat top pistons are in the mid 11:1 range with 64 cc heads, about 10:1 with 76 cc heads. If you're looking for excellent power, look no further than the AFR 1036's and a flat top 2 VR piston, just over 10:1 with their 75 cc chambers, and the 195 cc intake runners provide a good balance of power throughout the operating range. In fact, if built correctly, you should get close to the numbers this http://airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php engine produces. We built a 383 similar to it for a late 70's vette with a 4 speed, and the owner is scared of it. If you run a 64 cc or smaller chamber head, you will need a sizeable dish in the piston to keep the compression ratio in check for a street car.

I have yet to see a 400 block that didn't need to be decked. The factory chamfers the cylinders far too much which leaves little sealing surface for the firing ring of the head gasket to lay on. I also agree with the smallest overbore possible, but .020" pistons aren't too common.

regardless, best of luck, and don't forget to save up for a couple of pairs of street tires as you "get accustomed" to the torque.

 

Ok guys dont get upset with the question im going to ask,first off i am building a 383 stroker,and now my question,why go with a stroked 350 and maybe get 450 to 500 hp when you can get the same hp with a standard 350?this goes for all engines that are stroked.I know a 350 can only get so much hp out of it but for what everybodys hp needs are,it doesnt merrit a stroker.Im proablly missing something here

 

Torque!

HP does not move a car torque does. The more cubes the more torque. Also the 350 will have to have more hipo parts to get 450 to 500HP than a 383 or 396 or larger. A stroker will cost the same as a 350 if you are replacing the crank and rods anyway so why not stroke it. To me the same goes for a 400. If you are replacing the crank and rods why not stroke the 400 for 415,421 or even 434.

 

OK,got ya

 

I'm looking at the Victor Jr. intake & heads (larger chamber). Are these comparable to the AFR's? $1300 vs $1500

 

It's not really a fair comparison. The Edelbrock heads are as cast with little more than a bowl blend under the valves, whereas the AFR heads are completely CNC ported. When you compare the advertised flow numbers (which is a bit of a crap shoot since they don't always compare to what you get) the AFR castings have considerably more airflow at the lower lifts on the intake side, which means you don't have to run as large a lift, or even duration, cam with the AFR's to get a good streetable powerband, and that combined with the smaller intake runners, means better throttle response and improved torque below torque peak. A 195 cc runner is plenty for a street 406 and will still allow the engine to happily rev to 6500 and beyond.

Couple the benefits of the AFR heads along with what isn't always talked about, the fact that they run an efficient small diameter double spring with reasonable pressures for a flat tappet cam, and smaller, lighter diameter valve stems, which means for a given spring pressure, the AFR heads will allow more RPM before valve float. The flat tappet springs that come with the Eddy heads are way too high in pressure for a street engine.

We've used both with good results, but if you were to compare them side by side, you'd see that the extra 200 bucks is a minor added expense for a full CNC ported head. In reality, the AFR heads are too cheap, to buy the same style of head from Dart or Brodix you are paying between 1.5 and 2 times the price of the AFR's.

That's my feelings anyways

 

I just put together 396 stroker small block with the edl VJ 2.08/1.60 215 cc heads. It is what he had from his 355 ci motor.

I looked at them and tried to compare them to my old Dart 215 cc with the optional 2.08/1.625 valves. I got the bigger exhaust valves because I considered putting 250 or 375 hp port injected N2O to my 383. I had the intake manifold. My friend kept braking crank shaft in his 421 ci small block drag car

I just tried to pull up some pictures of them, but the forum web page is down.

In my opinion the Darts might be a cut above the EDL With the 2.08 Valve option you get the factory porting. As delivered they were more like 221 cc

 

OK, I did it. Pulled the trigger on the straight plug AFR 195CC heads (last pair JEGS had in stock). I also got the Edelbrock RPM AirGap manifold too along with 1.6 roller rockers.

I did get some bad news, my engine guy backed out of the $500 quote for a roller cam/lifters. He said when he went to order them, it was actualy going to be $900. He apologized and was quick to tell me. I decided to save the money and put it towards the AFR's.

Now for the cam, he is going to put a .480 lift flat-tappet cam in. I do have an Edelbrock RPM cam I bought a while back. Is Edelbrock RPM the right cam for this build?

 

Kinda brings a tear to your eye...

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h/DSC01369.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h/DSC01370.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h/DSC01371.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h/DSC01372.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...h/DSC01373.jpg

Can't wait until I start seeing some assembly.

 

You will want a bigger cam than that. With those heads and that cam you will never utilize the potential of the heads. I run a solid flat tappet with 252/260 @ .050 and a 550 lift. It is a little radical for every day driving but I drive it all the time for fun. You should be in the high 230s to low 240s @ .050 and a lift af around .500 for good performance.

 

My last round with the 406 ran a Comp XE-284 with 1.60 rockers and the RPM intake. At 240@.050,it wasn't that unruley on the street.

I've since gone solid flat tappet with an Isky Z-35 (254@.050),and Vic Jr intake,which I think is still very streetable with the exception of an idle issue I'm trying to resolve.

Big inches need big cams.

 

What about these cams with a 4 - 7 swap? Can anyone recommend something.

Also, I need to start thinking about a carb. Any suggestions. Is the Edelbrock 800 too much? I hear they are easy to dial in.

 

Just my $.02, Bite the bullet and go with the roller cam! You'll forget the cost soon if you do, but you will regret it for years if you don't. Also, a Quadrajet will do the trick just fine, but if you want an Edelbrock, I have a 750 I'll let go cheap. God bless, Sensei

 

I bet you "got wood" when you unpacked the heads, didn't you?
The last 383 we built we used a Speed Pro hyd FT cam with those heads, it may not make the most HP possible, but it was a MONSTER. I think it was a CS 1168R, 232/234 @ .050", .488 lift, 108 L/S. Honestly, there are dozens of cams that will fit your combo, including the RPM cam. If your builder doesn't mind the extra work that high ratio rockers sometimes create, going with a 1.6 rocker arm will boost the lift by 1.066 times what a 1.5 rocker does, and the heads flow well to .550 lift. I obviously can't hold your builder's hand on this build, but he needs to be careful on spring pressures, even moreso with the 1.6's so you don't lose a cam on fire up. We groove the lifter bores on all our HP flat tappet engines (comp makes the tool) and we've had good luck with that, along with good oil like Joe Gibbs BR, and a bottle of EOS. For extreme cases, we will leave the inner springs out for the first hour, it's a hassle, but much less than what a lost cam and lifter can create.

Good luck!!!!!!

 

Stay away from the swap cams, you don't need one. I prefer Holley carbs, like the 770 street avenger series, but the Edelbrock would work well too.