Rethinking the whole thing.
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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Rethinking the whole thing.
So I am probably going to liquidate half the stuff I have bought over the past couple of years and rethink the whole thing.
Eitherway.
Why do dart heads flow so poorly? Why would you buy dart heads? Is there something I am missing? I like the idea of dart heads as they come in the valve sizes I want (2.05, 1.625) but their flow numbers are horrible when you compare them to AFR, trickflow, RHS, etc.
Are they primarily geared to the porting crowd?
Eitherway.
Why do dart heads flow so poorly? Why would you buy dart heads? Is there something I am missing? I like the idea of dart heads as they come in the valve sizes I want (2.05, 1.625) but their flow numbers are horrible when you compare them to AFR, trickflow, RHS, etc.
Are they primarily geared to the porting crowd?
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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I am eyeballing a pair of Dart Pro 1 200cc heads with 2.05/1.625" valves.
Which will be a valve area increase of 3% to support an increase in displacement of 9%.
But man the flow numbers are horrible for a head of that big.
Which will be a valve area increase of 3% to support an increase in displacement of 9%.
But man the flow numbers are horrible for a head of that big.
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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The cost around $500 each bare. Lowest I have found is $449 each bare.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Beringen
Choice of heads depends on the engines demand for airflow. If you have a small ci engine like 350 or smaller a dart with smaller flow would suffice. And since they overal are pretty cheap, the choice was easy for me.
BTW : I was impressed with the quality.
BTW : I was impressed with the quality.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Florida
I have never seen proof of this with a flow sheet, so take it with a grain of salt...... read somewhere they are a very good head to open up. Maybe they offer more porting room? Maybe check with local porters and see what they are getting out of them. Remember that a better flowsheet doesnt always equate to more power.
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
So I am probably going to liquidate half the stuff I have bought over the past couple of years and rethink the whole thing.
Eitherway.
Why do dart heads flow so poorly? Why would you buy dart heads? Is there something I am missing? I like the idea of dart heads as they come in the valve sizes I want (2.05, 1.625) but their flow numbers are horrible when you compare them to AFR, trickflow, RHS, etc.
Are they primarily geared to the porting crowd?
Eitherway.
Why do dart heads flow so poorly? Why would you buy dart heads? Is there something I am missing? I like the idea of dart heads as they come in the valve sizes I want (2.05, 1.625) but their flow numbers are horrible when you compare them to AFR, trickflow, RHS, etc.
Are they primarily geared to the porting crowd?
I believe some of the other companies flow numbers are optimistic at best. Flow numbers sell heads, so take the numbers with a grain of salt.
I am looking at the AFR 227's and I want a guarantee I can put them on a flow bench and they will flow what they are advertised to flow or I get my money back
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Here is a link with flow #s: It is outdated though. Some of the newer designs are not included.
www.mopar1.us/headflow.html
I do know the darts can be made to flow much better than they come out of the box. Look at I/E Ratios not just intake flow also. For the $ the Brodix IK 200 is pretty good.
www.mopar1.us/headflow.html
I do know the darts can be made to flow much better than they come out of the box. Look at I/E Ratios not just intake flow also. For the $ the Brodix IK 200 is pretty good.
Last edited by 63mako; Dec 3, 2007 at 09:06 PM.
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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I am pretty much sold on the Dart 200cc heads with 2.05/1.625
Now I am trying to decide the single plane/dual plane issue. Team G or Edelbrock RPM Airgap.
I think I want the Hyd. Roller 292XFI HR13. I will switch to a solid roller after I get the heads ported and flow benched.
Gonna take the car to AED when I get to that point.
Now I am trying to decide the single plane/dual plane issue. Team G or Edelbrock RPM Airgap.
I think I want the Hyd. Roller 292XFI HR13. I will switch to a solid roller after I get the heads ported and flow benched.
Gonna take the car to AED when I get to that point.
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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Here is a link with flow #s: It is outdated though. Some of the newer designs are not included.
www.mopar1.us/headflow.html
I do know the darts can be made to flow much better than they come out of the box. Look at I/E Ratios not just intake flow also. For the $ the Brodix IK 200 is pretty good.
www.mopar1.us/headflow.html
I do know the darts can be made to flow much better than they come out of the box. Look at I/E Ratios not just intake flow also. For the $ the Brodix IK 200 is pretty good.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...44650_-1_10187
Pro
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Philadelphia PA
The new Dart aluminum heads are casts from the Platinum design. I had the prior and the new, and the heads guy hardly had to touch them. Got a bowl blend, port match and chamber polish and cc:
Took my 383 into the 11s
Took my 383 into the 11s
Last edited by Highhat; Dec 3, 2007 at 10:30 PM.
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From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
I was going by what Dart advertises. Here is a link to a graphic at Jegs.com
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...44650_-1_10187
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...44650_-1_10187
Or spend a little more and go AFR 195's. They outflow both with much better I/E ratio and better port velocity.
Last edited by 63mako; Dec 4, 2007 at 12:34 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
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BRO-1020000, $699.95 bare pair. IK200
64cc chambers might work for you for high comp. they do
have 2.02/1.60 valves. but I doubt thats a deal breaker for
power the heads flow air or they don't .03 increase in valve
means little if whats behind the valve is no good.
As an example the old factory heads had 202/160 valves,
but the new vortec head flows much better yet only has
1.94.150 valves.
I think not sure the 70cc chamber is priced the same.
www.summitracing.com
64cc chambers might work for you for high comp. they do
have 2.02/1.60 valves. but I doubt thats a deal breaker for
power the heads flow air or they don't .03 increase in valve
means little if whats behind the valve is no good.
As an example the old factory heads had 202/160 valves,
but the new vortec head flows much better yet only has
1.94.150 valves.
I think not sure the 70cc chamber is priced the same.
www.summitracing.com
Last edited by Little Mouse; Dec 4, 2007 at 02:06 AM.
Le Mans Master
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
IK 200 needs large FP 1206 gasket
Careful of IK 200 intake port/gasket size! At least one forum member had problem ... ZZ4 manifold so small it left part of IK 200 opening uncovered. AFAIK , IK 200 requires very large FP 1206 gasket ... and most low rise (vette hood) intakes have a small port & do not match well to IK 200 large openings. IK 180 not a problem ... uses FP 1204. IK 210 uses FP 1205 ... even smaller than IK 200.
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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The Darts flow 267 & 174 @ .600 The Brodix IK 200 flow 262 and 177 @ .600. Think they are cheaper. Good quality for the price and pretty nice I/E ratio. They are flowing this with 2.02, 1.60valves. Sometimes bigger valves on a 4.030 bore will be somewhat shrouded and won't really flow better. That might explain the lower than expected flow numbers.
Or spend a little more and go AFR 195's. They outflow both with much better I/E ratio and better port velocity.
Or spend a little more and go AFR 195's. They outflow both with much better I/E ratio and better port velocity.
Le Mans Master
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Careful of IK 200 intake port/gasket size! At least one forum member had problem ... ZZ4 manifold so small it left part of IK 200 opening uncovered. AFAIK , IK 200 requires very large FP 1206 gasket ... and most low rise (vette hood) intakes have a small port & do not match well to IK 200 large openings. IK 180 not a problem ... uses FP 1204. IK 210 uses FP 1205 ... even smaller than IK 200.
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik.html
thats a big opening. I have a new victor Jr manifold thats about
20 yrs old I never did use, I laid a smaller 1205 on the opening and its
really to big for the manifold, but this victor Jr was ment to work
with a set of phase one chevy bowtie heads, the other victor Jr manifolds
must surely have a bigger opening or more outside material.
Guru better stick with the dart 200 if thats what you want.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Dec 4, 2007 at 06:55 AM.
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
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I am really liking the Dart 200 with 2.05 and 1.625 valves.
A 427 stroker with a 2.1" has a valve diameter that is 51% of the bore diameter.
A 383 stroker with a 2.05" valve has a valve diameter that is 51% of the bore diameter.
A 2.1" valve in a 4.125 bore is a valve area that is 26% of the bore area. Same as a 2.05" valve in a 383.
Pretty cool.
I really think that this is the right solution that is proportional to some other high performance engines.
A 427 stroker with a 2.1" has a valve diameter that is 51% of the bore diameter.
A 383 stroker with a 2.05" valve has a valve diameter that is 51% of the bore diameter.
A 2.1" valve in a 4.125 bore is a valve area that is 26% of the bore area. Same as a 2.05" valve in a 383.
Pretty cool.
I really think that this is the right solution that is proportional to some other high performance engines.
Last edited by Guru_4_hire; Dec 4, 2007 at 11:28 AM.
