I am seriously considering purchasing a 71 BB vert for $10k next week. Whether or not I do may well depend on responses I get to this thread. I am obviously most concerned about the frame before shelling out this money.

The car is located in New England and although had been undercoated at one point there seems to be alot of surface rust pretty much all over the frame.

My question is, what is acceptable?

After spending about two hours underneath the car up on a lift, using a small ball peen hammer and hefty screwdriver, I found 99% solid metal under the scaled rust and pitting - this is to say that there was only two places where it was rotted, a small 2 square inch area directly underneath the left outside of the car just before the rear wheel well starts to curve up (can reach it with my hand sitting in the drivers seat), and the radiator support cross member is wasted but that seems to be easily replacable.

The swivel joint where the trailing arms mount to the frame , seems solid, some lateral flaking rust is evident but the tip of the screwdriver could not bend what was there.

Check out these pix. http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/P1000406.JPG http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/P1000407.JPG http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/P1000408.JPG http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/P1000409.JPG http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/P1000410.JPG


The car definitley spent time outside, for how long may be evident from the degree of pitting. Just about everything is pitted - the half-shafts, spindles, all the front end suspension parts, A-arms, the calipers, etc.

Whats the story with this pitting? Chek out pic #409 - cause thats all over the frame. It looks like hell but can it be sanded out? As time goes by and surface rust flakes off, how much of the frame goes with it? From the apperance of the pics, I know I will have to take off the body to scrape and recondition "whats left" of this frame.

Another question - even though its seems solid by hitting with a hammer, what about the inside of the frame? How do you treat that ? Can you spray stuff into the factory holes which are in places along the frame skeleton?

Honest opinions, please ! Based on those pics above, and the knowledge that I went all over this frame with a hammer to try and locate rotted out sections, but found it solid everywhere except that one spot, am I looking at merely a candidate for a frame-off to clean up the surface corrosion?

Or am I asking for TROUBLE here ?!?!?!?!?


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

Apaba80,

I've seen worse, mainly mine! If you're purchasing the car, a BB vert? and even a worse case scenario where you had to do major renovation on the frame, or even worser case scenario where you would have to replace it. You're only out 1-2 k on a potential 20-30k car if you're doing a complete resto.

Frames are easier to get a hold of than you think.

As far as blasting or dipping, you might get several opinoins, but any restorer will tell you to blast it. Dipping will strip your paint and any protection on the inside folds of the rails and it's very hard to get back in there. Dipping also leaves a very 'slick' surface that is hard for paint to adhere to, where blasting leaves a rough paint-friendly surface.

I've seen and heard of frames falling into three pieces after pulling bodies off b/c of rust and still make good show cars. Hope this helps.

 

From the look of the frame Pis.407 & 408 the amount of rust is somewhere between some and a lot, But it seems to be strickly surface. Your going to have surface rust on any C-3 vettes frame. You seem to already know about the sensitive areas like at the frame kickup and the trailing arm, if that's the case, and I say that with me sitting here looking at pictures, AND your going to remove the frame and I suppose restore it somewhat, I'd say the frame is not bad for a 1971, the rust that is there is going to need to be addressed, cleaned and stopped, coated and painted if your going to do a professional job, which I believe is necessary here.

So long as the screwdriver WILL NOT penatrate any of the frames flanges or structial menbers I think your safe. This is just from what I can see, I'd rather be there and have a look on my own, but it seems there isn't more rust than is to be expected?

 

I would definitely do the car wash test on that car!

 

I am no expert but,

I bought a car that spent its entire life in Michigan (Mich doesnt use salt on there roads). The underside of my car looked similar to yours with the exception of the hole in the rear section. A good scraping with wire brush and a coating of boeshield (a penetrating oil made by Boeing) made the frame look brown but very presentable. From what I know that section where the frame curves up is traditionaly a trouble spot that may (and I repeat may) casuse problems. Although If your intention is to do a body off many of those things can be repaired properly. If you are not then its hard to tell.

Good Luck :)
PS. I wouldnt worry about the rad support they all rust there and is easily replaceable.

 

Having changed a 76 frame that look exactly like that on all the components. I would say as long as you are prepared to change the frame as the worst case scenerio. Go for it. Sand blasting the parts of the front end for example will leave them perfectly ready for paint and all set for the new bushings etc. Most of the tie rod ends and the adjusting tubes will be beyond use and you would likely change them anyway. If you were to decide to change the frame from the outset You could likly put some miles on it to check out the other things. The main hazard area (kick up ) appears good.

 

Thanks for everyones input, really, what makes this forum what it is.

Ed T, I did run my fingers into the spaces I could, there was some flaking in there in the one spot I mentioned was rotted. My intentions are to take the body off and do it right, including replacing suspension parts, half shafts, have the trailing arms reconditioned (or buy re-man'd and trade these as core), bushings, etc. Dont know the condition of the differential or trans. The engine is not original, all the cylinders measured over 120 on a cold compression test. I fired it up and it sounds like a healthy beast. I am in this for the long haul folks. Including a new paint job. I expect to be putting in major dollars this winter and into next year.

The body parts are in excellent shape. Interior needs attention, new seats, but the parts are all there - needs a window crank on the pass side. Hard top is in great shape - inside headliner is clean. No cracks evident in the body except minor ones. Mechanism for the soft-top is intact. Dash top is not cracked.

Here are some more pix of this car. I think I am gonna do it. Its time. I lost my 80' last August in a crash. Have my work cut out for me, though, for sure .
http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/vet1.jpg
http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/vet2.jpg
http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/vet3.jpg
http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/vet5.jpg
http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/vet6.jpg
http://www.bauerlein.com/vett/vet7.jpg

 

What are you waiting for man Get down there and lay the cash on the table :) Looks like a good Project.

 

Sounds like you know what you're doing to me. I would go for it. If you already plan on a body off resto, then the frame situations can be dealt with. I have cut and welded together 3 of them, 2 were rusty and 1 was bent, and when they were done they all fit up perfect, and the alignment came out perfect. So, they can be dealt with even when they get real tough. Yours looks like it's not that bad. Once the body is off and it's cleaned up it will look even better.

 

Personally it seems alittle rough for 10k.

It seems to me that most poeple that have done a frame off have found the frames to be in worse condition than they expected. You sound optimistic, I'd bet the frame is pretty bad.

The body and interior look pretty rough too, very $$$$

If I were buying another car I would demand a southern car. Some of those things are very rust free.... For 12k you can probably get a car that will save you 15k...

 

woa! This is a NOM? Not worth the 10K + the additional 15K it will take you to get it close to nice. Keep looking dont be in ahurry there are a lot of cars out there and if NOM is ok with you there are even more. Spend the 200 to fly to arizona or some other rust free area then another 1000 and its home will save you 5-7,000 in rehabing.

PS if its a # matching then thats a different story. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your view a matching car is worth quite a bit more.

 

I just spend the last couple weeks working on the frame of my 69. I'll tell you about my experience. I thought I had a really solid frame, I'm talking about zero surface rust. In the frame rails in front of the rear tires I thought I had a small amount of rust because I could only probe into it in a couple of small (1/8") spots. To make a long story short by the time I was finished I had to cut out a 6"X2" section on the bottom drivers side frame rail, replace both frame rail end plates and the vertical supports about 8 inches inside the rail to the front of the end plates ( they were half gone) so I welded in all new metal and its solid now and looks great. Personally I would be concerned about the car (frame) that you are thinking about spending $10000 on. I would bet you have to do alot more work on that frame than you expect, maybe even have to replace it. As long as you know what you are getting into and understand the time and money involved anything on the frame can be fixed. But you might be better off with another vette with a rust free frame
Good Luck :D

 

You're decision depends on your resources. If you have the time and money to do it right, go for it. I bought my 72 without enough investigation on the frame of the car and I'm paying for it now. I've since purchased a good used frame and I'm having it dipped to remove rust and scale from the inside as well as the outside of the frame. Sandblasting can only remove the rust on the outside of the frame and most of the rust problems work from the inside out. It's going to cost me about 2k for the "new" frame, but it the long run it'll be worth it.

 

Michigan uses more salt than most states. It is horrible when they lay that salt down in the winter. One of the largest salt mines in the country is under the city of Detroit. Just about every old Vette that has been drove in the winter around here has frame rot.

Just my 2 cents.
Dwayne

 

You can buy a reproduction frame for about $3500 or you can find a frame that is in good condition for cheaper.

I just temporarily fixed all my rot last spring(same spot, just before the rear wheel kickups), a new frame is in my near future.

Good luck!

 

It all depends on what you are prepared to do and what you are prepared to spend. I really don't think the frame looks bad enough to replace, but you won't be able to tell for sure until you lift the body and give the frame a very complete inspection both top and bottom.
A good blasting can really clean up a lot of that surface rust. Any small pits left can be filled with rust preventative epoxy then the whole frame painted with POR 15 or Eastwood's Corrless. The inside of the frame can be pressure washed and then sprayed with POR 15, with a wand type sprayer, I used a $10.00 pumpup garden sprayer from Walmart.
If you have the body off it will make it much easier to get to all the nooks and crannies.
The real troublesome place to look for DAMAGING HARD TO REPAIR RUST is the windshield frame and the birdcage. If you do a body off, it is easier to replace piece of frame section than a piece of the birdcage.

 

I completed frame repairs to my latest project a few months back. My experience is the same as others, it's always worse than you expect. That's not too say it isn't worth the $$ and effort to fix, if it turns out to need some work. It may be fine, it may not. IMHO, you need to check for metal thickness with the pointy end of a welding hammer. Probing with a screwdriver isn't going to rule out most instances where the metal has rusted away enough to be concerned. Also, the main rust out points are inaccessible with the body on. From what I saw in the pictures, it appears to have moderate rust and I'd be somewhat concerned about it. Try to separate emotion from the buying decision and go into it with your eyes open. Realize it may need some work down the road and if that is acceptable, go for it!

BTW- I'm from Wisconsin where rust is also a big problem. Rust never sleeps...