Engine guys...your thoughts on this shortblock?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Engine guys...your thoughts on this shortblock?
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...46&CtgID=22977
Thinking about piecing together an engine since it seems T&L's service has sh*t the bed.... I don't want to fool with local machine shops so I was thinking about buying a fully blueprinted/balanced shortblock. I am kicking around the idea of this shortblock, slap on some AFR eliminators and maybe a hyd retro-roller setup. Trying to get the most HP for the buck. I figure $1500 for the SB, $1500 for the heads, $1000 for the valvetrain and another $500 in oil pan/balancer/timing cover etc.
I figure that setup should be good for a SOLID 450hp if not 475hp, all for $4500 or so...
Its either this or a ZZ383 but I am afraid the ZZ may not have enough power for me, especially for $5k.
Your thoughts? I know most would prefer a forged bottom end but....I am confident the cast stuff will hold 450hp reliably, especially since its a weekend cruiser and occassional strip nights.
Ofcourse another, cheaper option is this:
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...56&CtgID=22977
425hp for $3700 intake to pan is probably much cheaper then I could piece one together for..
Thinking about piecing together an engine since it seems T&L's service has sh*t the bed.... I don't want to fool with local machine shops so I was thinking about buying a fully blueprinted/balanced shortblock. I am kicking around the idea of this shortblock, slap on some AFR eliminators and maybe a hyd retro-roller setup. Trying to get the most HP for the buck. I figure $1500 for the SB, $1500 for the heads, $1000 for the valvetrain and another $500 in oil pan/balancer/timing cover etc.
I figure that setup should be good for a SOLID 450hp if not 475hp, all for $4500 or so...
Its either this or a ZZ383 but I am afraid the ZZ may not have enough power for me, especially for $5k.
Your thoughts? I know most would prefer a forged bottom end but....I am confident the cast stuff will hold 450hp reliably, especially since its a weekend cruiser and occassional strip nights.
Ofcourse another, cheaper option is this:
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...56&CtgID=22977
425hp for $3700 intake to pan is probably much cheaper then I could piece one together for..
Last edited by ajrothm; Dec 25, 2007 at 01:16 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Oxnard/San Luis Obispo CA
I'm building a similar setup with a 400 block, and the only main difference besides the bore is that I'm going with forged pistons (compression is slightly different too). First off, yours and their HP ratings seem a little optimistic but not incredibly far off.
Granted this is only an approximation, but I had a desktop dyno setup for my engine build using AFR 195 aluminum heads and a comp cam xe-268 Hyd flat tappet. I changed it to a 383 with 9.9 CR and it comes up with
399 HP @ 5500 RPM
438 Torque @ 4000 RPM
Which is still a respectable setup, and you will get a bit more out of it with a roller setup.
Other than that, it sounds like a good deal. I think I'm gonna end up spending about 1900 on my bottom end, so the price seems pretty good. I have no idea what kind of rep these guys have though.
Also, for the full crate you were looking at with iron heads the numbers are going to be slightly lower.
I have not done a whole lot of this stuff so maybe some others will correct me if I seem too far off base.
Granted this is only an approximation, but I had a desktop dyno setup for my engine build using AFR 195 aluminum heads and a comp cam xe-268 Hyd flat tappet. I changed it to a 383 with 9.9 CR and it comes up with
399 HP @ 5500 RPM
438 Torque @ 4000 RPM
Which is still a respectable setup, and you will get a bit more out of it with a roller setup.
Other than that, it sounds like a good deal. I think I'm gonna end up spending about 1900 on my bottom end, so the price seems pretty good. I have no idea what kind of rep these guys have though.
Also, for the full crate you were looking at with iron heads the numbers are going to be slightly lower.
I have not done a whole lot of this stuff so maybe some others will correct me if I seem too far off base.
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: Tigard OR
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...46&CtgID=22977
Thinking about piecing together an engine since it seems T&L's service has sh*t the bed.... I don't want to fool with local machine shops so I was thinking about buying a fully blueprinted/balanced shortblock. I am kicking around the idea of this shortblock, slap on some AFR eliminators and maybe a hyd retro-roller setup. Trying to get the most HP for the buck. I figure $1500 for the SB, $1500 for the heads, $1000 for the valvetrain and another $500 in oil pan/balancer/timing cover etc.
I figure that setup should be good for a SOLID 450hp if not 475hp, all for $4500 or so...
Its either this or a ZZ383 but I am afraid the ZZ may not have enough power for me, especially for $5k.
Your thoughts? I know most would prefer a forged bottom end but....I am confident the cast stuff will hold 450hp reliably, especially since its a weekend cruiser and occassional strip nights.
Ofcourse another, cheaper option is this:
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...56&CtgID=22977
425hp for $3700 intake to pan is probably much cheaper then I could piece one together for..
Thinking about piecing together an engine since it seems T&L's service has sh*t the bed.... I don't want to fool with local machine shops so I was thinking about buying a fully blueprinted/balanced shortblock. I am kicking around the idea of this shortblock, slap on some AFR eliminators and maybe a hyd retro-roller setup. Trying to get the most HP for the buck. I figure $1500 for the SB, $1500 for the heads, $1000 for the valvetrain and another $500 in oil pan/balancer/timing cover etc.
I figure that setup should be good for a SOLID 450hp if not 475hp, all for $4500 or so...
Its either this or a ZZ383 but I am afraid the ZZ may not have enough power for me, especially for $5k.
Your thoughts? I know most would prefer a forged bottom end but....I am confident the cast stuff will hold 450hp reliably, especially since its a weekend cruiser and occassional strip nights.
Ofcourse another, cheaper option is this:
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...56&CtgID=22977
425hp for $3700 intake to pan is probably much cheaper then I could piece one together for..
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,979
Likes: 384
From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
Well, if this is the max you will ever want from this engine then you will be fine. If, on the other hand, you are using this as the basis for a good car now, and planning on other HP upgrades later, then don't. Eagle builds this kit to top out at 500HP So this short block build, as you described it, will be at it's top end. I have not bought anything from them, nor have I heard any bad press on them either. The deal looks reasonable, if they deliver everything as described. Keep us in the loop.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Well, if this is the max you will ever want from this engine then you will be fine. If, on the other hand, you are using this as the basis for a good car now, and planning on other HP upgrades later, then don't. Eagle builds this kit to top out at 500HP So this short block build, as you described it, will be at it's top end. I have not bought anything from them, nor have I heard any bad press on them either. The deal looks reasonable, if they deliver everything as described. Keep us in the loop.
Well I am actually trying to decide on what to do now. I had my heart set on a T&L 408" but since they're business ethics is apparently in the sh*tter, I am looking for other options. I want to stay around $5k for the motor max. I am considering the ZZ383, I know it would be solid and reliable but I think I could piece one together that makes more then 425hp for $5k. I am really looking for bang for buck as its mainly a street cruiser that will go to the strip a couple times a year and maybe some street action. I am more concerned with reliability/driveability. If I go with a lower end type engine, like the Year One crate 350 or the BluePrint engines 383, I could keep my current headers and exhaust which will save me a ton of money. I just don't see much about either of those engines being ran. I don't want to mess with local machine shops nor to I want to learn EVERY SINGLE DETAIL about what works and what doesn't on a SBC.
The T&L 408 would have been perfect for me if you could actually get one within 6 months and it actually make the advertised power.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
Likes: 1,136
From: League City Tx
Here is an interesting build:
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...wap/index.html
They used a 388", AFR 195 Eliminators and a two different FLAT TAPPET cams and make between 471hp and 523hp. The 471hp setup was MUCH stronger all the way through until like 5000rpms, then the others took off for the last 1200rpms but.....
Pretty interesting they got that kind of power out of a HYD flat tappet....That could really save me some money on the build if I went hyd flat as opposed to the hyd retro roller setup.. Food for thought.
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...wap/index.html
They used a 388", AFR 195 Eliminators and a two different FLAT TAPPET cams and make between 471hp and 523hp. The 471hp setup was MUCH stronger all the way through until like 5000rpms, then the others took off for the last 1200rpms but.....
Pretty interesting they got that kind of power out of a HYD flat tappet....That could really save me some money on the build if I went hyd flat as opposed to the hyd retro roller setup.. Food for thought.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Texas
what about a 454 big block - is this an option for you?
crate engine depot have the new zz454 w/aluminum heads for $5900. Play with it for a year or so and then upgrade cam etc - there is no telling what HP you could get out of it.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...7-P799C54.aspx
cheers.
crate engine depot have the new zz454 w/aluminum heads for $5900. Play with it for a year or so and then upgrade cam etc - there is no telling what HP you could get out of it.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...7-P799C54.aspx
cheers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...46&CtgID=22977
Thinking about piecing together an engine since it seems T&L's service has sh*t the bed.... I don't want to fool with local machine shops so I was thinking about buying a fully blueprinted/balanced shortblock. I am kicking around the idea of this shortblock, slap on some AFR eliminators and maybe a hyd retro-roller setup. Trying to get the most HP for the buck. I figure $1500 for the SB, $1500 for the heads, $1000 for the valvetrain and another $500 in oil pan/balancer/timing cover etc.
I figure that setup should be good for a SOLID 450hp if not 475hp, all for $4500 or so...
Its either this or a ZZ383 but I am afraid the ZZ may not have enough power for me, especially for $5k.
Your thoughts? I know most would prefer a forged bottom end but....I am confident the cast stuff will hold 450hp reliably, especially since its a weekend cruiser and occassional strip nights.
Ofcourse another, cheaper option is this:
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...56&CtgID=22977
425hp for $3700 intake to pan is probably much cheaper then I could piece one together for..
Thinking about piecing together an engine since it seems T&L's service has sh*t the bed.... I don't want to fool with local machine shops so I was thinking about buying a fully blueprinted/balanced shortblock. I am kicking around the idea of this shortblock, slap on some AFR eliminators and maybe a hyd retro-roller setup. Trying to get the most HP for the buck. I figure $1500 for the SB, $1500 for the heads, $1000 for the valvetrain and another $500 in oil pan/balancer/timing cover etc.
I figure that setup should be good for a SOLID 450hp if not 475hp, all for $4500 or so...
Its either this or a ZZ383 but I am afraid the ZZ may not have enough power for me, especially for $5k.
Your thoughts? I know most would prefer a forged bottom end but....I am confident the cast stuff will hold 450hp reliably, especially since its a weekend cruiser and occassional strip nights.
Ofcourse another, cheaper option is this:
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...56&CtgID=22977
425hp for $3700 intake to pan is probably much cheaper then I could piece one together for..
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
T&l
I was thinking of a T&L engine as well. I had seen one or two threads about them here, and they were positive.
Are there threads about their "downfall" here? I tried searching for more info here in more detail, but since T and L is only 2 letters, the search engine does not pick it up well.
So, is T&L a bad option now?
Are there threads about their "downfall" here? I tried searching for more info here in more detail, but since T and L is only 2 letters, the search engine does not pick it up well.
So, is T&L a bad option now?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
I agree on the flat tappet cams can make some power. I run a solid flat tappet in my 385 SB and a set of old AFR 190 heads. It made 409 RWHP on the dyno. Should be about 480 to 490 at the flywheel. Nothing special here. I did go to a full forged bottom end just to be safe though.
That short block looks pretty good for a good street motor with an occaisional run down the strip. Run a good sized cam though. A 268 cam is small for a 350 and is way small for a 383+ ci motor. I run a 252/260 @ .050 cam and it is streetable.
That short block looks pretty good for a good street motor with an occaisional run down the strip. Run a good sized cam though. A 268 cam is small for a 350 and is way small for a 383+ ci motor. I run a 252/260 @ .050 cam and it is streetable.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 88
From: State of Confusion
I was thinking of a T&L engine as well. I had seen one or two threads about them here, and they were positive.
Are there threads about their "downfall" here? I tried searching for more info here in more detail, but since T and L is only 2 letters, the search engine does not pick it up well.
So, is T&L a bad option now?
Are there threads about their "downfall" here? I tried searching for more info here in more detail, but since T and L is only 2 letters, the search engine does not pick it up well.
So, is T&L a bad option now?
NCM Grand Opening Veteran
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,979
Likes: 384
From: South of giving a damn
St. Jude Donor '11, '17
I was thinking of a T&L engine as well. I had seen one or two threads about them here, and they were positive.
Are there threads about their "downfall" here? I tried searching for more info here in more detail, but since T and L is only 2 letters, the search engine does not pick it up well.
So, is T&L a bad option now?
Are there threads about their "downfall" here? I tried searching for more info here in more detail, but since T and L is only 2 letters, the search engine does not pick it up well.
So, is T&L a bad option now?