Changing over to a mini starter help!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
From: Liberty Missouri
Changing over to a mini starter help!
I am changing over to a two post mini starter. My question is can I just pick up my switched hot to the coil from the yellow wire on the wiper motor. I think it’s the yellow wire…I have the engine out right now so I am not sure on that one, if I am wrong please correct me. This is on a ’69 any help here would be great.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
I am changing over to a two post mini starter. My question is can I just pick up my switched hot to the coil from the yellow wire on the wiper motor. I think it’s the yellow wire…I have the engine out right now so I am not sure on that one, if I am wrong please correct me. This is on a ’69 any help here would be great.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
From: Liberty Missouri
The original starter had a third post that fed voltage up to the positive on the coil. The new mini starter I have only has two posts. I will have the purple wire that engages the bendix (sp) on one and the battery cable on the other. What I have been told is that I need to get power for the coil from somewhere else. The wiring diagrams I have are not much help on this.
Last edited by Theiskell; Mar 26, 2008 at 10:26 PM. Reason: stupidity
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
The original starter had a third post that fed voltage up to the positive on the coil. The new mini starter I have only has two posts. I will have the purple wire that engages the bendix (sp) on one and the battery cable on the other. What I have been told is that I need to get power for the coil from somewhere else. The wiring diagrams I have are not much help on this.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
From: Liberty Missouri
Ok, I got this from a web site (I think summit) does this sound correct. A 10A/250 volt diode.. that sounds huge to me
R-TERMINAL
On older vehicles, mostly with breaker points, there was an extra terminal and wire on the original
starter (the MSD Starter does not have this terminal). This extra terminal served as a ballast resistor
bypass. When the starter was cranking, 12 volts would be supplied on this terminal and directly to the
coil positive terminal for starting assistance.
Most ignition systems today do not need this terminal, however, if your ignition has no voltage when
cranking you can wire a system. Connect a 10A/250V diode in-line with the motor side of the solenoid.
The banded end of the diode goes away from the starter. This allows current to go to the ignition coil
during cranking and will not feed back to the starter while the engine is running.
R-TERMINAL
On older vehicles, mostly with breaker points, there was an extra terminal and wire on the original
starter (the MSD Starter does not have this terminal). This extra terminal served as a ballast resistor
bypass. When the starter was cranking, 12 volts would be supplied on this terminal and directly to the
coil positive terminal for starting assistance.
Most ignition systems today do not need this terminal, however, if your ignition has no voltage when
cranking you can wire a system. Connect a 10A/250V diode in-line with the motor side of the solenoid.
The banded end of the diode goes away from the starter. This allows current to go to the ignition coil
during cranking and will not feed back to the starter while the engine is running.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 3
From: CA
Its been a while so I may be wrong on this...hopefully someone will correct me if I am. There are two power lines going to the coil. One comes from the junction box on the firewall and has a resistor that reduces the 12 volt current. The other power lines comes from the starter (the one you are referring to) and this line doesnt have a resistor and therefor is full battery voltage. To help start your car you need full voltage going to the coil and when you crank your starter it supplies the full voltage. However, once your car is started the power supply coming from the firewall with the resistor feed the power to the coil. You do not want to run full power to you coil if you have a stock point/condenser ignition system.
When I upgraded my ignition I removed the point set-up and now run a system that allows me to run full power to the coil. Therefore I eliminated the line from the starter and replaced the wire from the junction block with a new line that didnt have the resistor.
I did this a few years ago so I have I got this correct...and I hope it helps.
When I upgraded my ignition I removed the point set-up and now run a system that allows me to run full power to the coil. Therefore I eliminated the line from the starter and replaced the wire from the junction block with a new line that didnt have the resistor.
I did this a few years ago so I have I got this correct...and I hope it helps.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
From: Liberty Missouri
Its been a while so I may be wrong on this...hopefully someone will correct me if I am. There are two power lines going to the coil. One comes from the junction box on the firewall and has a resistor that reduces the 12 volt current. The other power lines comes from the starter (the one you are referring to) and this line doesnt have a resistor and therefor is full battery voltage. To help start your car you need full voltage going to the coil and when you crank your starter it supplies the full voltage. However, once your car is started the power supply coming from the firewall with the resistor feed the power to the coil. You do not want to run full power to you coil if you have a stock point/condenser ignition system.
When I upgraded my ignition I removed the point set-up and now run a system that allows me to run full power to the coil. Therefore I eliminated the line from the starter and replaced the wire from the junction block with a new line that didnt have the resistor.
I did this a few years ago so I have I got this correct...and I hope it helps.
When I upgraded my ignition I removed the point set-up and now run a system that allows me to run full power to the coil. Therefore I eliminated the line from the starter and replaced the wire from the junction block with a new line that didnt have the resistor.
I did this a few years ago so I have I got this correct...and I hope it helps.
That was a very good description and makes things a bit more clear. I am thinking I am going to change my distributor over to electronic so that may be the way I go.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 38
From: Fremont CA
Wire from "R" terminal on starter soleniod is to bypass resistor wire in harness while starter motor is cranking and battery voltage is lower. You can insulate and zip tie wire back to harness and ignition coil will be fed 9.8VDC or so from resistor wire intregal to wiring harness or go to fuse block and look for 12VDC auxillary ignition terminal to take a full 12VDC to coil IF your ignition set-up allows full coil voltage (Pertronix Ignitor or similar set-up.) You SHOULD NOT do this if you are running ignition points as the contact set will burn from excessive current across the points.
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Pro
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 736
Likes: 1
From: Chester VA
That's what I did when I swapped to a mini starter. I was told when I posed this same question that you could just eliminate the wire from the starter to the ignition even with a points system, and as long as your battery wasn't weak it would still start fine. I never tried this however, and personally I'd rather have the extra juice for that day I leave my lights on.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 43
From: Eastern US XX
When the starter is engaged, the "R" terminal is electrically the SAME point as the bottom LARGE lug that goes to the actual starter motor. You can replace the lug on the wire with a large one and attach it to the bottom large stud to deliver the full 12V when starting.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 1
From: Liberty Missouri
If I do that would the power coming from the firewall not feed back to the starter and keep the starter engaged? There is a second wire that has a resistor that supplies 9.8 constant volts to the coil.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
If you use a late starter with points ignition ... and require the extra booster terminal on solenoid cap like your old starter has ... simply take your new starter to a reputable local starter & alternator rebuilding shop ... have them install a solenoid cap that has the extra boost terminal ... it's not brain surgery. And, I'd trust that for long-term reliability a lot more than a diode, wiper wires etc.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 43
From: Eastern US XX
I seem to remember that there was some vendor who had a "kit" to do this very thing and it probably included the diode.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
If you use a late starter with points ignition ... and require the extra booster terminal on solenoid cap like your old starter has ... simply take your new starter to a reputable local starter & alternator rebuilding shop ... have them install a solenoid cap that has the extra boost terminal ... it's not brain surgery. And, I'd trust that for long-term reliability a lot more than a diode, wiper wires etc.
