you don't have the fan clutch installed??
If so, than definitely install it back on the car along with the correct stock fanblade (avoid flexfans at all cost, they are not as efficient and tend to break off blades taking large chunks of fiberglass with them when they go )
Also make sure the correct fan shroud is installed and all the proper radiator and core support seals are in place.
Than make sure your vacuum advance is connected to a full manifold vacuum source and working correctly and your car should run at proper operating temps.

 

The upper gauge picture with 180stat points to the same point as my gauge with a 160stat

 

I've switched to a 180, and never go above 195 even in n.y.c. traffic !
By the way I perfer my Beer at 38.5 degree's

 

This will help you to get your fan clutch to work correctly

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/fanclutch1.doc

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/fanclutch2.doc

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/fanclutch3.doc

 

You are confusing coolant temp with oil temp. For a typical street car running a 160 thermostat, even IF the coolant can stabilize at 160 degrees, it will typically see "true" oil temps around 50-70 degrees higher than that, or 210-230 degrees. It is the OIL that needs to burn off condensation in order to help prevent the formation of damaging acids that can form when condensation combines with sulfer combustion byproducts, creating sulfuric acid (battery acid). Its just grade school science, water boils at 212 degrees. On your stove or in your sump, makes no difference. As long as your oil reaches at least 212, you are good to go. I've always run 160 thermostats in all my hotrods with no issue at all. And many others do as well.

As for sludge formation, a 160 thermostat is absolutely too high to contribute to that. Running no thermostat, depending on how good you cooling system is, could get you into a sluge formation condition.

With all this said, if you change your oil often enough, neither sludge nor acid formation will be a real issue, even if running cold, because the oil's additive package will keep these concerns at bay.

 

540
no, I'm not confusing coolant temps with oil temps at all. I'm not discussing oil temps, i'm discussing COOLANT temps.

try reading this article by John Hinckley, a former GM engineer, specifically the section on thermostats.
http://lbfun.com/Corvette/Tech/vette...es/cooling.pdf

If you wish to run a 160º t-stat in your car, be my guest but it's not the correct thing to do and your motor isn't liking you for it.

 

I just replaced my 195 stat that was sticking and causing my car to run at about 207. I put in a mr gasket 180 and now it runs right on the notch now.

 

It takes too long to warm up the engine which can promote sludge.

 

Last and not least, but with all the information you need is in Barrys statement,

 

Wally?
am I reading this right??
Are you feeling "ok" my friend? You aren't ill or anything are you?

sorry, just not use to you agreeing with my posts.........

 

I was going through the Paragon catalog and found this on the page 74with the temperature sending units:
"Correct reproduction provides accurate resistance, connection, & gauge display. Note that water temp reading may vary from actual water temp + or - 10%. My emphasis.

180° minus 10% is 162° and 160° plus 10% is 176° Hey, yours should read higher than mine! LOL.

Cheers,
Pete

 

I would use a failsafe thermostat 180 they fail in the open position saving your motor because the coolant never stop very important if you have aluminum heads abot 14.00 at autozone

 

The author may well be a knowledgeable individual, but a lot of what he said about thermostats, is not in his own words, he merely repeated what many other articles/books have already stated, and perhaps many of those written pieces referenced the same original write-up, who knows. Either way, that's all well and good, but it doesn't all match reality. For him to make a blanket statement about a 160 degree thermostat being too cold for the oil to get hot enough to boil off condensation, is laughable. You cannot say that will be the case for any engine in general, because that simply is not true. That has not been my situation, ever. Remember, you only need the oil temp up to at least 212 degrees, to boil off the condensation (you are boiling water here, not exactly Rocket Science). Maybe Grandma's grocery getter, that is driven like an egg is between her foot and the gas pedal, wouldn't get the oil hot enough. But I for one, do run my Hotrods a tad bit harder than that :-) So I've never had an issue with getting my oil temp high enough. And while these same books/articles like to say that colder running engines have more wear, personally I have never seen that with any of my stuff, nor, according to my engine building gearhead buddies, have they. And some of them don't, OMG, even run a thermostat at all. Cooler running engines absolutely make more power (anyone who has ever done any dyno work can tell you that), if your cooling system is capable of taking advantage of a colder thermostat. And cooler running temps also are a big help in preventing detonation with the 91 octane pump premium that is all too common these days, and which can vary from tanker to tanker, even with name brand gas. Bottom line, my motor seems to like me just fine, and is a happy camper. Even with her 160 degree thermostat, there is no sludge, no acid damage, no pinging, no problem. But of course I'm only talking real world experience here, not textbook theory. You decide for yourself which one has more credibility.

Maybe the author was not a hands-on engineer, there are countless types of engineering specialties. Believe me, I know, that is my own industry. And not only that, like all professions, let's just say, some are better than others. And the old saying, "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach", can certainly hold true here as well. I'm sure he means well, but don't bet the farm on everything he said being correct, because it doesn't all match reality. You should know by reading this forum, that members don't often agree on any given discussion. Authors and engineers are no different. You could find as many to disagree with him, as you could find who would agree with him. A word to the wise, be careful about believing everything you read on the internet. You might just shoot yourself in the foot……...

 

Robertshaw failsafe theromstat, hmmm? That's what I just got for the new 540 I'm building. Got it from Stewart high performance water pumps, along with one of their nice water pumps. Looks to be a nice enough piece, which is why I got it, but how can that coolant system author say it will fail in the open position, while an el-cheapo Pep Boys thermostat will fail in the closed position. He obviously is just repeating some literature he came across. It comes closed, obviously it is not up to temp, right out of the box. What's to say a manufacturing defect (it says made in Mexico BTW) wouldn't prevent it from opening. Certainly could happen, which would blow his statement. You simply cannot make any blanket statement like that about anything. Because everything screws up at some time or another, in every imaginable way. You could find examples of him being wrong and examples of him being right. So, be careful about taking things you read at face value. It's best to think about what you read, and try to see what even makes sense. It's to your own advantage to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

540
I'm not going to bother to argue about it. I know what I know from my own cars, from EVERYTHING I've researched and read, and also from people like John Hinckley and others who ALL say the same thing.
Sorry, when it comes to credibility I'll take results from OEM testing over that of a few gearhead buddies of yours. I'd say GM engineering had a few million more dollars to do their testing to come up with their results and conclusions.

BTW, the Robert Shaw thermostats, also sold under the Mr. Gasket brand name are what's considers a "Balanced Flow" thermostat. They have an extra set of passages for the coolant to flow thru in case it fails therefore coolant flow is not completely restricted in the event it fails - this is why it's commonly referred to as a unit that "fails open" rather than "fails closed". Other units that fail will completely restrict coolant flow but the Robert Shaw and Mr. Gasket units won't.

With all your comments about the author of the article I cited in your last two responses you may wish to learn a bit more about who John Hinckley is before attempting to discredit his information.... you may be a bit surprised.

 

Sorry Barry, I am going with 540 on this one. I have run 160 thermostats in vehicles for years and as he said, no sludge, no acid damage, no pinging, no problem.

 

longbros

be my guest, it's your car........

As I mentioned already, MOST peoples cooling systems aren't efficient enough that it's going to make much of a difference anyway meaning that the car is still going to run at an operating temp higher than the 160º anyway.
if your system is efficient enough to run an actual 160º operating temp once it's warmed up than it's your car that has a higher than normal wear on the piston rings and cylinder bores and possible condensation issues in the oil.

it ain't my car so do what you like

 

Barry, let me give you an example. I bought a 1969 GTO in 1972 with 30k miles on it. I sold it 16 years later with 175k miles on it. The engine had never been apart, same pistons, rings, bearings, valves, etc. I ran a 160 degree thermostat for most all the years I owned it. It ran like a top. Just an example.

May I suggest that you relax a bit and cool out. What ever you believe in is fine, just don't try and force it on everyone else. No reason to be so authoritative on this, it just stirs people up. Everyone has had different experiences, good and bad, so offer your experiences and we will offer ours. That is the great thing about the people on this Forum.
Fred

 

Why, your right on the money.

A 160 is too cold at first but may just allow the coolent to pass through the radiator too fast and can actually become a factor in causing overheating.

 

actually, not trying to be "authoritative" at all, guess it's the way I write. But the facts are out there to be found......

Oh, and on your GTO (nice cars! ) it may have still ran great at 175K miles but if the motor was never apart how do you know there wasn't ANY additional wearing on the parts assuming the cooling system was keeping operating temps at the same 160º as the t-stat? Unless the actual operating temps were higher anyway which again makes the entire point moot.

regardless, I'm done debating it