ImBatman

For some who do not know I just tore down and rebuilt my engine after 300 miles because #3 was leaking water. The #3 cylinder had a sleeve put in it from one machine shop who did not deck the block. I had the heads (aluminum) checked and shaved. the block was pressure tested and it was found to have a warped deck and the first machine shop hand filed the sleeve flat. the sleeve was fine other than the butcher job on the top at the deck. The block after decking by the "new machine shop" was pressure tested to 200 psi. no leaks. I rebuilt the motor using good practices and a clean shop. Used permatex 2A on all head and intake bolts. After break in I was pressurizing each cylinder to re install the inner valve springs. When pressurizing the #3 cylinder water started pushing out of the over flow tank.

I have since pulled the 4 bolts surrounding #3 and resealed liberally with permatex 9AF sealant. I also verified the torque on all head bolts and they were fine. I increased the torque by 5ftlbs. Tonight I am going to re pressurize the cylinder with the cap off the expansion tank and see if I have bubbles.

Since this is the exact same issue as before I am sure that it is not a head gasket issue. I have also rulled out the heads being cracked as I switched sides and the leak remained in the same place.

If this does not fix it I am seriously considering this product. This is now and has always been planned to be a weekend cruiser but at this rate I won't get to use it this year either. Any opinions advice or suggestions are always appreciated.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Thanks
Wade

SH-60B

Go for it. It'll buy you some time til you get a good block, but what it does to the radiator/heater core?...

DRIVESHAFT

That is exactly the product that I thought of when I read about your problems.
Of course the downside is that you wont be able to run anti-freeze, so you will
need to use something else to inhibit corrosion.

ImBatman

Well on the plus side I pulled all of the heating and AC stuff so I am not running a heater core. No worried there. I am eventually putting a vintage air unit in so I will need to make sure something is done before then. I just can't figure where the leak would be coming from unless it is behind the sleeve but you would think that that would have shown up when the shop pressure tested it.

I think I am going to be on the look out for a new block to build over time. I just want to drive this thing for a while. If i thought the leak was really big I wouldn't consider this. But if it is something like a head bolt just not sealing then I think I should consider all alternatives to pulling it apart again. Course this may be a mute point and the re sealing of the head bolts worked but I am to pesimistic to think that now.
Wade

yellow 72

Do it! I knew a reputable high performance engine builder that would drop "stop leak" tablets in the block before he installed the expansion plugs

Matt Gruber

check the c5 c6 tech. those guys put 8 sleeves in all the time, and must know how to stop leaks.

bonehead2

A little reading http://www.allpar.com/fix/cracks.html
If you are sure your gaskets are not leaking and the correct gaskets for the application have been used, decking, angle milling heads etc require the proper gaskets to seal, then Moroso Ceramic Seal is the ticket. I have used it many times for racing engines as well and it has always worked for me.I have just completed a built on a 502 and the choices of head gaskets and intake gaskets is amazing.You say you switched heads around so it's not a crack or guide?.I have to say I think it's a gasket leaking, intake maybe.

ImBatman

I bought the bars stuff the other day in a fit of rage. After calming down and googling the heck out of this I am thinking that it is an option I just don't think I will go the bars route. Since I have to get a new set of plug wires I might as well order a bottle of this to.


I guess if i do this I can be a guinea pig for everyone.....

Wade

ImBatman

Thanks I will read through this. Correct the heads were switched around and the leak remained on #3. I am using the Fel-pro gaskets recommended by Edelbrock for their aluminum heads. Same with the intake. It may be a leaking gasket but it is leaking on the exact same cylinder that caused the first tear down 4 months ago. Passenger side sealed fine. and 1,5,7 sealed but that durn #3 is KILLING ME!!!

Thanks again for the link!
Wade

Durango_Boy

I think it's a gasket too Wade. Will you post a pic of the block with the sleeve and piston, and then a pic of the head gasket on it? If the seam of that sleeve sits in an awkward spot under the gasket, it can create a unique condition that most blocks don't have. You even said it was hand filed and even the slightest irregularity in the filing might create the smallest of passages for coolant to sneak by.

Manuel Azevedo

This is pretty sad the shops you been too can't do a better job for you. But your problem can not be a head bolt leak if like you say you have no head gasket problem. You said if I got this right that you put presure into the cylinder and got presure in the rad. You either have a gasket problem still(I don't think you do) or that slevee was put in without enough press to it. If that is the case fix it right or get another block cause the leak will not stop for long with any chemical fix in this case. Good Luck

ImBatman

Hmmm let me look around at my pics. I know I have some of the cylinder with the piston installed but not sure about the gasket. The origionl shop hand filed it. The second shop honed it and then decked the block to make sure it was flat.

Thanks DB!
Wade

silver 76

Last yr. I had my 74 350 bored .030 over they did not tell me there was a sleeve in # 7 after a lot of paine I removed the coolent and pressureized just the engin. I could hear air leaking inside the engin so then pulled the pan and found air leaking of the side of the cylinder wall. At first I thought the casting was thin but after puling the engin and then heads etc. I turned the crank to find the sleeve come out W T F? They resleeved it and so far so good. I would do the same on yours.

rclinton

It might be a issue when the cylinder heats up and the difference of the sleeve and the block is enough to create the slightest gap that wouldnt show up when it is cold pressure checked.

I dont know the asnwer to this but..is there away to permanetly seal the top and bottom seam of the cylinder and the sleeve?

Either way man ..stick with it and good luck.

Manuel Azevedo

If the second shop decked this block it is flat and no gasket leak. I believe your slevee is leaking at the top. You said they presure tested it and that is good. But when you setup to presure test you have a deck plat when a rubber gasket on top that would seal the edge of the slevee on the deck side and you would never see that leak with a presure test. This is most likely what your problem is.

ImBatman

Here are the best 2 pics that I can find.





Manuel

correct , they pressure tested both before and after decking the block and as you said used a deck plate and rubber gasket. The sleeve is in #3.

Thanks
Wade

bonehead2

Who put the sleeve in, first shop or second shop? If the sleeve was installed without sealer applied to both the block bore and the outside of the sleeve it may cause this problem.

TopGunn

Someone a few post ago mentioned the intake. If you've checked and double checked the heads/block/sleeve, could it be a bad alignment with your intake somehow creating a sneak path for pressure into a water passage?
Just a thought

ImBatman

The first shop did the sleeve. I did not notice a problem until I went to change the oil. At that oil change the motor only had about 300 miles on it. I pulled the heads and had them milled and then reinstalled while the motor was in the car. Leak was still on #3. Machine shop had me swap sides on the heads so I did and the leak was still on #3. I then pulled the motor out and tore it down. Out of the 3 sets of head gasklets I went through not one showed signs of being blown at #3. The machine shop pressure tested the block and could not find a leak on the sleeve. The owner got involved and called me down to the shop and showed me that although the sleeve was installed right by the first machine shop they cut corners and hand or hand tool ground down the edges of the sleeve. You could actually see where the sleeve looked thicker on the #1 side of #3 than it did on the #5 side of #3. The second machine shop as I understood it said that the bolt hole between 3 and 5 had a discolored spot leading directly in to the #3 because the block had not been decked and that more than likely it had been leaking from day 1 and progressively got worse. He said that he had seen this before on bad sleeve installs but since the sleeve was holding pressure he felt I would be fine just decking and rehoning the block.



Honestly I wish that that was all it was but the fact it is on the exact same cylinder and has the same symptoms I think it is more than this. But thanks for the input.

Bud2

I'm just thinking out loud. You had a sleeve put in by a dodgy shop. A dodgy shop is, well, DODGY! Off center, hand filed?!? What else is wrong? I think that cylinder is suspect. You've removed metal on the heads and block, which would mean proper sealing is going to be suspect also. But then I know nuttin'.

Bud.