Brodix or AFR???
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 245
Likes: 2
From: Jersey shore NJ
Brodix or AFR???
Hi, I'm looking at at top end buid on my L 82. I would like around 400 to 425 HP. My question is will the Brodix IK 180 heads be good enough for this? I was looking at the AFR heads but they might be overkill for what I'm looking for and if I can save $500 for other parts that would be good.
I was thinking of keeping my L 82 cam and going with 1.6 rockers. This should bump my lift to 480/490 lift.
I will have true dual exaust , RPM intake , and 650- 750 carb?
I was thinking of keeping my L 82 cam and going with 1.6 rockers. This should bump my lift to 480/490 lift.
I will have true dual exaust , RPM intake , and 650- 750 carb?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,672
Likes: 199
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
The answer to your question is no you will not make anywhere near 400HP with just swapping heads. Take a look at the ZZ4 specs, and it only makes
~ 350HP
~ 350HP
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
From: FL.
You will get your goal with something like this...
Brodix IK 180's
Comp CCA-08-423-8 Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 276/ 282, Lift .502/ .510
use a thin head gasket like the felpro 1094 that will get your scr to around 10:1 and enhance your quench number. (10:1 is fine with those heads)
put in 92octane at the pump.
upgrading your cooling system would be safe, but maybe not necessary?
Good luck with the build, post what you decide to do OK?
Brodix IK 180's
Comp CCA-08-423-8 Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 276/ 282, Lift .502/ .510
use a thin head gasket like the felpro 1094 that will get your scr to around 10:1 and enhance your quench number. (10:1 is fine with those heads)
put in 92octane at the pump.
upgrading your cooling system would be safe, but maybe not necessary?
Good luck with the build, post what you decide to do OK?
Last edited by 69vettester; Jul 20, 2008 at 11:34 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 245
Likes: 2
From: Jersey shore NJ
Thanks, I was hoping to keep the cam I had and bump the compression to about 10.1 and use 1.6 rockers. also with an rpm air gap intake and holley carb. If I have to go with a roller cam then I will probably just go with the year one motor. I was trying to keep from pulling the motor if i did not have to. Its easier to hide new heads and intake from the wife then a whole motor!
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
From: FL.
Thanks, I was hoping to keep the cam I had and bump the compression to about 10.1 and use 1.6 rockers. also with an rpm air gap intake and holley carb. If I have to go with a roller cam then I will probably just go with the year one motor. I was trying to keep from pulling the motor if i did not have to. Its easier to hide new heads and intake from the wife then a whole motor!
Also...
You dont have to go with a roller cam to get 400+ with the Brodix heads. Rollers are just better ,more reliable with the breakin and running. Oil quality for the older performance engines isn't so great anymore!
If your Bottom end is sound, your top end plan for 400Hp is a good one.
Last edited by 69vettester; Jul 23, 2008 at 09:39 AM.
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Former Vendor
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: walpole ma
On a good day
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Easy to see why the 355 HP ZZ4 makes no power, only thing positive you can say about it would be the 10.00 compression. the cam 208 at .050 int. duration good for about 5200 RPM how can a 350 size engine make any real power at this low of rpm. heads are the L98 87-91 vette heads have poor airflow would not make a pimple on the *** of a Ik180 or 180 afr on airflow they won't even come close to a pickup truck iron vortec head in airflow.
Buy yourself the Ik180 if its $500.00 cheaper then the AFR use a decent performance cam not some joke 208 .050 cam you will easly see 400/425 hp.
Buy yourself the Ik180 if its $500.00 cheaper then the AFR use a decent performance cam not some joke 208 .050 cam you will easly see 400/425 hp.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jul 23, 2008 at 03:26 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,672
Likes: 199
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Never said the zz4 was any good, just trying to give him an easy example to look at the specs and then know that he need more of everything to make 400HP.
Problem these days is these numbers get thrown around so much you think it's a cake walk to make 400/425 HP with a 350ci. Well throw those 180cc heads on and put whatever cam in there you want, trick is to make it run good on the street, then take it to a shop that has a real dyno and see if it makes 400HP or put it on a chassis dyno and see if it makes ~ 325RWHP
Problem these days is these numbers get thrown around so much you think it's a cake walk to make 400/425 HP with a 350ci. Well throw those 180cc heads on and put whatever cam in there you want, trick is to make it run good on the street, then take it to a shop that has a real dyno and see if it makes 400HP or put it on a chassis dyno and see if it makes ~ 325RWHP
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Assuming your block has not been decked use the fel pro 1094, 3.1cc
voluum .015 thick gasket. spend part of that $500.00 that would go for an afr head for a modern cam, if you want to help yourself even more spend the $500.00 torwards the cost of a performance hydraulic roller.
voluum .015 thick gasket. spend part of that $500.00 that would go for an afr head for a modern cam, if you want to help yourself even more spend the $500.00 torwards the cost of a performance hydraulic roller.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
From: coon rapids mn
i am also seriously looking at brodix heads to top off my 350 i have in my vette right now. the cam i have in my 350 right now is a zz4 cam that i had laying around from old car that i bought a zz4 for and swapped in a hot cam so what cam would be a good cam to get in the 425-450 range. the block in my vette is a 90 z28 block so it is a factory roller setup and i am running a Wieand action plus intake 1 5/8 headers 2.5 duel s with magnaflows th400 3:36 at some point in the gears will be changed to 3:73 and tranny swapped for a overdrive tranny either a 200r4 or a 5 speed manual haven't made mind up?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
I should have known better then to use the term EASY now were up to 425/450 HP 
anything can be done within reason, but the loss of low end power with a big cam in a 350 probably would not be what most people want.
anything can be done within reason, but the loss of low end power with a big cam in a 350 probably would not be what most people want.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jul 24, 2008 at 01:31 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I've changed my cam with the motor in vettes several times. It is possible to take the front 2/3rds of the oil pan bolts off an pry it down in front enough to get the front timing cover off.
with the radiator out, the cam can be changed.
I just siliconed the pan gasket up and it never leaked.
IMO 195 -200 cc heads work fine on 350 ci.
with the radiator out, the cam can be changed.
I just siliconed the pan gasket up and it never leaked.
IMO 195 -200 cc heads work fine on 350 ci.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
I've changed my cam with the motor in vettes several times. It is possible to take the front 2/3rds of the oil pan bolts off an pry it down in front enough to get the front timing cover off.
with the radiator out, the cam can be changed.
I just siliconed the pan gasket up and it never leaked.
IMO 195 -200 cc heads work fine on 350 ci.
with the radiator out, the cam can be changed.
I just siliconed the pan gasket up and it never leaked.
IMO 195 -200 cc heads work fine on 350 ci.
Be careful with Bordix heads larger than IK-180's if you want to use a dual plane manifold that fits under the hood. The GM manifold, which is a clone of the Edl. Performer, will not fit IK-200 heads. I know because I tried it. These manifolds and a Weiand fit the IK-180's fine.
I have no experience with AFR's so they might be different.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I agree with the pan gasket but if you have A/C you'll have to remove the headlight actuator cans to get the condensor far forward enough to get the cam out and it just makes it.
Be careful with Bordix heads larger than IK-180's if you want to use a dual plane manifold that fits under the hood. The GM manifold, which is a clone of the Edl. Performer, will not fit IK-200 heads. I know because I tried it. These manifolds and a Weiand fit the IK-180's fine.
I have no experience with AFR's so they might be different.
Be careful with Bordix heads larger than IK-180's if you want to use a dual plane manifold that fits under the hood. The GM manifold, which is a clone of the Edl. Performer, will not fit IK-200 heads. I know because I tried it. These manifolds and a Weiand fit the IK-180's fine.
I have no experience with AFR's so they might be different.