Rack and pinion options
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Santo TX
Mrvette you missed what I said. I’m not saying a two u-joint system can’t work on a specific car but that it won’t work for a product that must accommodate 100% of the geometry that is possible. You were able to get it to work on your car and maybe 20% of the Corvettes out there would work with a two u-joint system but the production variations make it unworkable for the other 80%. I would say that 90% of our installations aren’t very difficult but 10% can be a real bugger with the double upper u-joint and it has everything to do with the geometry of how the car came together and how it is now after 30+ years. We’ve never come across one that we can’t get to work properly but some can be a real challenge. Additionally, we are aiming for a bolt on system with no modification to the car. We don’t want to get in there and cut parts out of the car.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
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From: Orange Park Florida
Mrvette you missed what I said. I’m not saying a two u-joint system can’t work on a specific car but that it won’t work for a product that must accommodate 100% of the geometry that is possible. You were able to get it to work on your car and maybe 20% of the Corvettes out there would work with a two u-joint system but the production variations make it unworkable for the other 80%. I would say that 90% of our installations aren’t very difficult but 10% can be a real bugger with the double upper u-joint and it has everything to do with the geometry of how the car came together and how it is now after 30+ years. We’ve never come across one that we can’t get to work properly but some can be a real challenge. Additionally, we are aiming for a bolt on system with no modification to the car. We don’t want to get in there and cut parts out of the car.
I DO however understand your reluctance in cutting the engine mount horn, never given ME a ounce of troubles, and IF it ever did on some other car it would be up to the owner to reinforce it, but not for your bolt on gear and warranty requirements....
From B school some 42 years ago, I remember some legal crap too, and i'm sure you all aware of it, from your lawyer.....
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Santo TX
That is a reasonable argument but our experience proves otherwise. The thing is that a 1/2" front or back and a 1/4" either side on the location of the end of the steering column makes a huge difference if it will work or not. Those tolerances are within the range that these cars are built to and a stock steering box and rag joint will accommodate that and still work normally. We have experimented with a 2 joint system and it just won't work smoothly in all cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Palatine, Peoples Republic of Illinois
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-‘18
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I would agree with that. I used VB&P system and had a hard time getting to work with 3 joints. BTW, I talked to VB&P yesterday - 2 things: they have scrapped development of the slip joint system and Pattie is gone.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 247
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From: South of GR MI
What are the pros and cons of the different racks used in the two systems?
I wonder if VBP would send one of their slip joint shafts so I could try it. My car is very straight and would have a decent chance of working with the two joint system.
I wonder if VBP would send one of their slip joint shafts so I could try it. My car is very straight and would have a decent chance of working with the two joint system.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Santo TX
The actual R&P units are the same since VBP directly copied our design that they were selling at the time.
The two joint system functioning isn't a matter of the car being straight. It is more a matter of the loose tolerances the cars were built to. It isn't unusual for things to be a 1/2" difference between cars that have no damage history and are completely original.
The two joint system functioning isn't a matter of the car being straight. It is more a matter of the loose tolerances the cars were built to. It isn't unusual for things to be a 1/2" difference between cars that have no damage history and are completely original.
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Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
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From: Orange Park Florida
The actual R&P units are the same since VBP directly copied our design that they were selling at the time.
The two joint system functioning isn't a matter of the car being straight. It is more a matter of the loose tolerances the cars were built to. It isn't unusual for things to be a 1/2" difference between cars that have no damage history and are completely original.
The two joint system functioning isn't a matter of the car being straight. It is more a matter of the loose tolerances the cars were built to. It isn't unusual for things to be a 1/2" difference between cars that have no damage history and are completely original.
Other than plugging in a Global West suspension setup with Caddy spindles and a Camaro box in a '70 A body hotrod years ago, this is the most I have ever played with any car, but I enjoy toy time.....
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: South of GR MI
The actual R&P units are the same since VBP directly copied our design that they were selling at the time.
The two joint system functioning isn't a matter of the car being straight. It is more a matter of the loose tolerances the cars were built to. It isn't unusual for things to be a 1/2" difference between cars that have no damage history and are completely original.
The two joint system functioning isn't a matter of the car being straight. It is more a matter of the loose tolerances the cars were built to. It isn't unusual for things to be a 1/2" difference between cars that have no damage history and are completely original.
Would you guys be willing to work with me to get 2 universal setup working? If not, could you point me in the direction of where to get the parts?
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Santo TX
Yes sir, we could do that. You may have to do a little trimming of the intermediate shaft length since we don't have a standard length figured out already for that setup.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: South of GR MI
Does the rack mount any further to the rear of the car than the stock steering ram? The oil pan on my LS1 touches the ram at full lock so I need all that room.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Santo TX
Sounds good, just let us know how we can help.
From what you have said that interference shouldn't be a problem. Our rack does not sit further back than the assist ram. Typically our system resolves issues like this and I know our kit clears LS1 installations (with an F-body oil pan, I believe).
From what you have said that interference shouldn't be a problem. Our rack does not sit further back than the assist ram. Typically our system resolves issues like this and I know our kit clears LS1 installations (with an F-body oil pan, I believe).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 1
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: South of GR MI
Sounds good, just let us know how we can help.
From what you have said that interference shouldn't be a problem. Our rack does not sit further back than the assist ram. Typically our system resolves issues like this and I know our kit clears LS1 installations (with an F-body oil pan, I believe).
From what you have said that interference shouldn't be a problem. Our rack does not sit further back than the assist ram. Typically our system resolves issues like this and I know our kit clears LS1 installations (with an F-body oil pan, I believe).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 1
There's nothing wrong with the stock ram, the problem is the control valve. Check out some high end sprint car rack and pinions, low and behold they use an external assist cylinder. Easier to work on/replace/service!
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2008
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