Have the machine shop verify that the bores will clean at .010" before you buy pistons.

 

Buy the 180's.

It sounds to me that you want mostly a hot street car, and the torque provided by the smaller runner 180's will really outperform the 195's.
If you had two of the same engines in the same kind of cars and did a stop light race the engine with the 180's will out pull the other car because of the added torque. then you shift gears and out pull him again, then you shift.............well you get my drift. You'd pull him by at least 1 car in each gear.

The 195's will only outperform the 180's above 4000 RPM, so in reality how often are you going to be above that? I drive my car quite hard on the street and dont spend all that much time above 4000 RPM.

Another note I'd like to make is CHEVY HI-PERFORMANCE magazine did a Vortec head/ AFR 180 head swap on a SBC400 and were able to produce 525 TQ /490 HP with the 180 heads. I know you only have a 350, but you can see that the 180's will definetly support a larger engine. Look it up on the web.

I hope This bit of info helps

 

I have had the 80 for five years now and I like playing with the car. I do owe a 2004 Z16 as well so my 1980 is something to enjoy my free time.

I like the idea of disassembling the engine, cleaning the parts and just taking time to enjoy the rebuild process.
I would like to Blueprint the engine and it does not matter how long it is going to take or how much it is going to cost. This is my Hobby!!

I do not drink, smoke, gamble…..

I am lucky enough to have very understanding and supportive wife and we do not have any children dependent on us.
My interests are the vettes and I/WE want to enjoy the ownership of them!

More than anything, this is only a moan.

It is a real ART to understand how all individual parts fit together and I am fascinated to know how it all works together.

Peace out
Paul

 

C3Paul, ever get the feeling that some folks are reiterating what everyone else has already said?

Since I have already installed these heads, if you need any pics of the heads, of my build or have any questions about the heads PM me. I'd be happy to help if I can.

 

I agree the 180cc are more than enough for what I want!

It just took a little while to understand why.

So to All Thank you, Again
Paul

 

Paul, Kevinator is basically giving you the same info I gave you at the beginning of this thread. Build your engine for the best torque in the RPM range you will drive the car the most, low to mid range.
Enjoy the fresh rebuild.

Now let's pick a cam.

 

We machine alot of OEM 350 locks and we sonic test them all and so far we have never seen one that will go .100 and at a 4.100 bore the cylinders are going to be some thin.

 

We have done quite a few balance jobs and used a balance plate between the flywheel and the crank shaft as ABS and Goodson sells these so you can use a neutral balanced flywheel with a on an extrernal balanced crank shaft.

They also make one for the 454 cranks as well.

 

Sorry I mean 0.01
Paul

 

As Aluminium heads can deal with higher compression ratio better than Iron heads and the use of Premium fuel in my car, what compression ratio should I be aiming for?

I have copied this article from the internet and if I am right the base UK 95 RON fuel is equivalent to US Premium 91octane fuel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
Am I right?

 

So I was disassembling little more tonight and the Oil pan, Oil pump, Oil filter, Fuel pump and Lifters are off now.

The cylinder walls have very light vertical scratches on some cylinders but I can still see the cross marks and once the pistons are off I will measure the size of the bores.

I have had a good look at the Con rods and rotating assembly as well and as far as I can see for now there does not seem to be any wear, however when I take the pistons off I will have a closer look at the shells and con rods.

Should I make some measurements or checks before I disassemble the rotating parts?

I am considering not replacing the Con rods if they are fine. What do you think?

I have changed my mind about using my original intake as I feel that I would waste the potential of the AFR heads so could I have a recommendation for a replacement Intake to work with AFR 180cc heads and Rochester Q-jet carburettor and still fit under the stock 1980 bonnet, please?

What cam should I buy to compliment the AFR heads?

Thank you
Paul

 

C3Paul. The best thing to do is to e-mail the tech support at both AFR and Comp Cams and give them your combination and they will e-mail you back what they recommend. To be honest, go .030 over, make it a 355. The Edelbrock Performer is a good manifold if you intend 5500 RPM to be your max and it will fit under a stock hood with a drop base air cleaner. I have one on my '77. If you want to go to 6500 RPM then the Edelbrock Performer RPM is a very good choice and many guys on the forum use it with stock hoods. The other thing to consider with heads is how big will your cam be? If you use a big cam with lots of lift those 180s will run out of breath, conversly, if you use a smaller cam then the 195s are way to big. Hate to cloud the issue but the tech support for the companies you want to use are a great tool to help you close in pon your combination.

 

To buy a piston .010 over it would not be a shelf piston but a custom pistons.

If you decide to use the stock rods have them resized and check for bend and twist and if your going to be building some good cylinder pressure have the block bored and plate for good ring seal.

If your just going to change the pistons weigh them against the original one if they are different in weight have your assembly balanced and if a flywheel is used have it resurface and balanced and then bolt the pressure plate on dial that in as well.

Good luck with your build

 

Please do not take this the wrong way, however it looks to me that engine building is a matter of personal experience and preference and some individuals may not want to discuss this over a message board.

Is anybody out there willing to talk to me via e-mail and telephone to help me to rebuild my engine, please?

Send me a pm
I will listen and not go against your recommendation!

Thank you
Paul

P.S who has a desk top Dyno?

 

Ok...I'll jump in here too. Don't want to muddy it too much..but many people have made excellent suggestions. The key one is what are you really going to do with it?

First, let's talk the basic rebuild. If you are planning on boring it....just plan on .030 over as that is the most common size and pistons are readily available. If that is all you intend to do with it...go for some pistons that will get some compression in it, reuse stock rods and crank and move on if they are in decent shape. BUT....if the machine shop starts talking about resizing all the rods, replacing rod bolts, turning the crank etc etc...you seriously ought to look at one of the 383 kits. All the machine work adds up quickly. The parts will arrive to you ready to install in your freshly bored block. The block will need a little grinding to clear the rods most likely...but you can do it in 30 minutes.

Either way, pay close attention to the piston *compression height* numbers. You may have to dig a little to get it..but this is critical. Many of the replacement pistons are intentionally made *shorter* to allow for block decking and you will find your pistons end up .040 or more below the deck and you really lose compression unless you deck the block a lot. Since it's the original Vette block I wouldn't deck the numbers off of it...I'd just get the right pistons to keep deck height as close to zero as you can. I routinely install pistons ...005-.010 ABOVE the block and select head gaskets to get proper *quench*. That really helps detonation issues and power a little bit.

I prefer forged pistons hands down...even the cheaper TRW/Sealed Power type...but hypereutectics are an option too. You just have to pay close attention to ring gaps and making sure you have no detonation. They WILL break if you get some.

Why 5500 rpm? A stock bottom end can handle 6000+ with no issues if the valvetrain is good. A simple solid flat tappet cam can go 7500 rpm easily...a basic hydraulic will go 6500 easily with right springs. A 350 isn't that big of a motor...so TQ isn't huge. It shines as RPM rises. Don't be too conservative.

Why do I say that? Here's my take on it. These things are fun toys. We like to drive them and play with them. We want that killer sound and *pin your ears back* acceleration when you stomp into it. As some mentioned..you don't go above 4000 a lot in normal driving.....and even that is nowhere near full throttle. You're just gradually running through the gears. It takes very little HP to drive around. All you need is to have it not load up, buck or surge. It needs to drive nicely and 95% of that is the tune. The only other huge variable is the cam. The cam will have more affect on manners and low speed power than anything. You can tune a huge cam to drive fine.

BUT...when you DO stuff your foot in it...you want LOTS of power and you want it to hang on for a long time. It's no fun having a motor *run out of breath* early. That's where the good heads, cam, exhaust and intake is going to pay off.

I think way too many people build these *magazine buildups* where low RPM TQ is everything and end up being dissapointed in the final results. I get it all the time when people ask me why their new motor with all the new shiny parts won't fall out of a tree and some kid just spanked them with a lot less fancy stuff.

So here's my thoughts. If there is anyway to swing it..do the 383 now. You'll be glad you did. The added inches will add a lot of low speed TQ as well as allow 40+ hp more if the same basic combo is used. The added inches also allow you to run a little more cam and head and still keep killer manners. The top end pull will be that much better too.

If you still want to do the 350....I'd still use the 195's with a decent cam. The AFR 195's are a great head (get the newest versions) and with a good head..low speed manners are still fine. I ran a set of 207cc professionally ported heads on a otherwise stock, sump piston 350 with an LT-1 cam (1.6 rockers), headers, single plane intake and 750 DP carb with a 4 speed and 3.36's. It ran fantastic and low speed manners were not an issue. Tire smoke any time you wanted it.

All that said....the 180's will not be a bad choice....but if you're building power....might as well build some!!


See ya,

JIM

 

common oversizes replacement & mild performance pistons for sbc are 0.020", 0.030", 0.040" and 0.060".

common race pistons include above and also 0.005" increments.

You can expect a typical old C3 bore will not clean up at ten over anyway ... and at +twenty some will & others will not clean up.

Late model motors with thin ringpaks & fuel injection (ie Vortec & LSx)typically show much less bore wear than typical C3.

Suggest do not order any piston until you KNOW what your bores require for cleanup; if it's never been bored and no broken rings it'll probably cleanup at 0.030" (most common oversize choice). That's a reference ... you must check all 8 of YOUR bores.

 

IMHO you should do the full teardown and find out exactly what can be reused and what will need to be machined and how much it will cost. From their you can determine if a stroker is cost effective. If you are going to do a mild build a Performer RPM 170, or IK 180 head will flow almost exactly the same up to .500 lift. If you arent going roller cam and only 355ci, flow numbers dont support the expense of AFR 180, since most hydraulic flat tappets for the street wont see .5oo lift at all. That leaves money for an intake and roller rockers, or the money to go 383. If your rods are good, you can get a cast 383 crank new for $190, pistons will cost the same for 350 or 383.

 

Thank you very much to everyone

This is what I have done so far

Just before I take off the rotating assembly should I do any checks or do I just mark everything and disassemble?

 

Paul

We build alot of performance engines and a 2 bolt with a 3.480 stroke we would use up to 375 horse and using a 3.750 will side load the caps because of the extra stroke and studs will not cure the caps from walking as they are only grey cast iron caps and the studs are just better hardware here is alink to support this. http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=652566

At our shop we would sonic test the cylinders for thickness and don't go by coreshift as we have prved many times its a myth. If your block is good we would add splayed center caps as the last 383 with AFR's made some good numbers here is a link http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236517 and one other http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106715 and I know a 2 bolt would not stand up to either of these engines.

We have been using the Compstar cranks for the 6 inch rods and rods we either use the Scat Procomp rods with the 7/16 bolts or the callies Compstar rods and I like the Maule piston and ring kits

For a good kit like the Callies with crank, rods, pistons, rings and bearings and balancing will run around 2050.00 dollars. Granted there are cheaper kits but if your going with a good block and heads you might as well build a good lower end.

If you use your block go with the splayed caps, decked to zero, bored and plate honed is a must to get the best ring seal and the best performance and the rods I mentioned do require some clearancing on the pan rails.

Both of our engines in the links have similar caps but the one that made 497 horse I wanted a HYD. roller cam but the customer wanted the hyd. flat tappet cam and using a good HYD roller cam I think we left some HP and torque on the table.

If you need a good block for a good starting point these blocks are top of the line and we have used quite a few of them for build we are working on. http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12112

I see you a few miles away and it maybe hard to get some of these parts.

Good luck with your build Carl

 

Label all Main and Rod caps !