Hello and Help (New Engine ???'s)
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Springfield PA
Hello and Help (New Engine ???'s)
Hello all, long time reader, first post. i brought my stock '81 3 yrs. ago to just cruise, so i wasn't real worried about having a Hi Perf. vette, just liked the 80-82 look. My how that changes. Anyway, i lost compression in a cylinder over the summer and my mechanic suggested a Jasper rebuild. But now i want more performance (doesn't everyone?). So here are my questions.
1. Has anyone tried a ZZ4 in a '81? Cam to aggressive for stock computer chip? If so, will a hypertech chip cure this?
(i have heard his is not a good idea and will cause more headaches)
2. goautocenter.com has a 320 hp alum. hd. motor for around $2K. Has anyone used this? Would changing cams to a more agressive but computer friendly cam (Compucam #270-114142 from jeg's) be better for my '81? I would also add a ZZ4 intake, Shorty tubes and Dynomax Superturbos.
Emissions are not a problem (under 5k a yr. excempt in PA), but will probably keep all anyway.
I realize there are a lot of questions for one post so any help will be appreciated, And Thanks for all the previous advice over the years! :D
1. Has anyone tried a ZZ4 in a '81? Cam to aggressive for stock computer chip? If so, will a hypertech chip cure this?
(i have heard his is not a good idea and will cause more headaches)
2. goautocenter.com has a 320 hp alum. hd. motor for around $2K. Has anyone used this? Would changing cams to a more agressive but computer friendly cam (Compucam #270-114142 from jeg's) be better for my '81? I would also add a ZZ4 intake, Shorty tubes and Dynomax Superturbos.
Emissions are not a problem (under 5k a yr. excempt in PA), but will probably keep all anyway.
I realize there are a lot of questions for one post so any help will be appreciated, And Thanks for all the previous advice over the years! :D
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 986
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
Steve,
I'm was going through the same question a coulpe of months ago. I decided against a "crate" motor, because i found compromises that i didn't care for. I'm building up an all forged 383 to MY specs, first, i can cater to my goals in terms of hp, nitrous, etc, etc. secondly, i can do things such as 6" rods, nice heads, and custom cam as well as Compression. A Crate is fine if you are happy with what you are getting out of the box... a crate and upgraded heads a year later can quickly exceed or equal the price of a custom engine. Right now i'm figuring about $3000 for the shortblock, $1K for heads, reusing some of the accessories that i already have. So slightly more than a ZZ4 i *should have a 450-500hp 383. I know chris (Chris81) has a ZZ4 he seems to like quite a bit; judging by his donuts :lol: Good luck. Shell out a bit more now, be happier later :)
I'm was going through the same question a coulpe of months ago. I decided against a "crate" motor, because i found compromises that i didn't care for. I'm building up an all forged 383 to MY specs, first, i can cater to my goals in terms of hp, nitrous, etc, etc. secondly, i can do things such as 6" rods, nice heads, and custom cam as well as Compression. A Crate is fine if you are happy with what you are getting out of the box... a crate and upgraded heads a year later can quickly exceed or equal the price of a custom engine. Right now i'm figuring about $3000 for the shortblock, $1K for heads, reusing some of the accessories that i already have. So slightly more than a ZZ4 i *should have a 450-500hp 383. I know chris (Chris81) has a ZZ4 he seems to like quite a bit; judging by his donuts :lol: Good luck. Shell out a bit more now, be happier later :)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 2
From: Summerville SC
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
1. Has anyone tried a ZZ4 in a '81? Cam to aggressive for stock computer chip? If so, will a hypertech chip cure this?
(i have heard his is not a good idea and will cause more headaches)
2. goautocenter.com has a 320 hp alum. hd. motor for around $2K. Has anyone used this? Would changing cams to a more agressive but computer friendly cam (Compucam #270-114142 from jeg's) be better for my '81?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Rochester NY
Re: Hello and Help (Intimidator454)
Check out your local newspaper classifies and/or the swap sheet. Maybe even ebay. I bought the motor in my sig from a guy on ebay. I noticed he was located about and hour and a half from my house. The engine sold for over $2000 twice on ebay, but no one wanted to pay shipping. So I emailed him and told him I'd give him $1400 cash and come get it. He thought about it for few days and decided he'd do it. The point of the story is, you can get a really good deal if you look around your local area. There's always someone who has spent a great deal of money on and engine and then later needs money and has to sell it at a loss. I've seen several good deals in the classifieds as well. Just make sure you know what to look for to make sure you're not getting screwed. And remember CASH talks.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,758
Likes: 3
From: Surrey
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
Fully understand the comment about getting it for cruising & then wanting more!
If a cam is fitted that is too aggresive for the ECU then I don't think a new chip will solve the problem. As far as I know the problems occur because aggresive cams lower the manifold vacuum to a point where the ECU gets confused. Crane do a series of cams that work well with the ECU (I'm hopefully fitting one this winter), but I wouldn't let the ECU affect your decision of whether to rebuild or to get a crate motor. The Confuser can easily be removed (whether you stay with the L81 or fit a crate motor) - all it does is control the mixture on the primaries, the spark timing & TCC lockup. The cost of another carb, dizzy & fitting a switch for the lockup would be fairly insignificant compared to the cost of a crate motor & all the other bits that would need changing.
There are people here who have had good results staying with the ECU & "tweaking" the motor: hopefully they'll reply to your post.
I'm just going to "upgrade" my L81 over time to give the power I want, mainly because I'll enjoy doing it, but also because the cost of shipping a crate motor over to the UK would be crippling (besides, just dropping a crate motor in would be too easy!!! :jester )
:cheers:
If a cam is fitted that is too aggresive for the ECU then I don't think a new chip will solve the problem. As far as I know the problems occur because aggresive cams lower the manifold vacuum to a point where the ECU gets confused. Crane do a series of cams that work well with the ECU (I'm hopefully fitting one this winter), but I wouldn't let the ECU affect your decision of whether to rebuild or to get a crate motor. The Confuser can easily be removed (whether you stay with the L81 or fit a crate motor) - all it does is control the mixture on the primaries, the spark timing & TCC lockup. The cost of another carb, dizzy & fitting a switch for the lockup would be fairly insignificant compared to the cost of a crate motor & all the other bits that would need changing.
There are people here who have had good results staying with the ECU & "tweaking" the motor: hopefully they'll reply to your post.
I'm just going to "upgrade" my L81 over time to give the power I want, mainly because I'll enjoy doing it, but also because the cost of shipping a crate motor over to the UK would be crippling (besides, just dropping a crate motor in would be too easy!!! :jester )
:cheers:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 924
Likes: 1
From: Houston Texas
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
Steve,
GM has an emissions legal conversion option that comes with the ZZ4 that will allow the 1983-8? Camaros to install the ZZ4 engine. They use the orignal computer carb (same as ours) with richer secondary rods, upgrade the chip, convert to dual cats, dual snorkel, and a few minor additions. With this in mind I'm sure it can be done to our 81's as well with a simple secondary rod change and an aftermarket chip. One of the magazines did an article on the swap, and I think it ended up with 308HP at the flywheel and ran mid 13sec. 1/4mi times. The new ZZ4 engine is 10HP better now than when that article was written, and I believe much higher torque. With the right gears, traction, and exhaust you might be in the high 12s.
Mark
[Modified by 81vette, 11:47 AM 1/10/2002]
GM has an emissions legal conversion option that comes with the ZZ4 that will allow the 1983-8? Camaros to install the ZZ4 engine. They use the orignal computer carb (same as ours) with richer secondary rods, upgrade the chip, convert to dual cats, dual snorkel, and a few minor additions. With this in mind I'm sure it can be done to our 81's as well with a simple secondary rod change and an aftermarket chip. One of the magazines did an article on the swap, and I think it ended up with 308HP at the flywheel and ran mid 13sec. 1/4mi times. The new ZZ4 engine is 10HP better now than when that article was written, and I believe much higher torque. With the right gears, traction, and exhaust you might be in the high 12s.
Mark
[Modified by 81vette, 11:47 AM 1/10/2002]
