ZZ4 crate motor question.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 229
From: Oakbank Manitoba
ZZ4 crate motor question.
My questions revolve around the use of the plastic timing chain cover that comes with these crate motors. Does the plastic timing chain cover work with a double roller timing chain and will it fit behind the Corvette "short" water pump?
Ken
Ken
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I don't know that they fit behind the short pump. I do know that the plastic cover was designed for the crank position sensor and when not needed I just use a metal cover. You can buy stamped and aluminum covers through Summit or Ebay designed for your engine.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 229
From: Oakbank Manitoba
I'm building a certain type of fuel injection conversion setup that requires this plastic cover as it uses the crank sensor that is added to the bottom of the cover. The covers were designed primarily for Vortec truck engines (96 to 99). They were also installed on ZZ4, ZZ383 and FastBurn 385 crate motors. These crate motors came from the factory with a single roller chain. I have heard that you can use a short style water pump if you change a couple of the rear water pump cover mounting bolts to "button head" style of fastners. Can anyone confirm this for me?
Last edited by KENS80V; Nov 20, 2008 at 11:53 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
I'm building a certain type of fuel injection conversion setup that requires this plastic cover as it uses the crank sensor that is added to the bottom of the cover. The covers were designed primarily for Vortec truck engines (96 to 99). They were also installed on ZZ4, ZZ383 and FastBurn 385 crate motors.
I guess you just need to compare measurements between the plastic cover and a stock cover, and the thickness of the timing chain you'll be using.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,311
Likes: 2,265
From: NorCal
No problem here on a C2..........
I've got that setup in my '67 with no problems. Left the stock cover and chain in place; went to the short pump to fit in the dimensions of my shroud/radiator. Don't know for sure if it's the same measurements on a C3, but assume it is since it's the same basic frame.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 229
From: Oakbank Manitoba
Tuxnharley...did you have to modify the back of the pump at all to fit in front of this plastic cover? Are you using a factory style short leg pump or is it aftermarket?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,311
Likes: 2,265
From: NorCal
I'll check at home tonite..............
Well, since it's been a few years now since I did the install (2003) and at age 59 I do occasionally suffer from early onset CRS, I'd better check the car itself when I get home tonight - it's in the garage under a car cover! However - I'm pretty damn sure it was/is a factory style pump, and don't remember having to make any mods to either the pump or tc cover. As I recall, that was the least of my problems with the ZZ4 install - biggest hassle was getting a flywheel to replace the flexplate it came with, since I'm running a Tremec 5 spd tranny.
BTW - looks like we could be 57th cousins or something - checked your bio and we share the same last name!
Best,
Glenn
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Advanced
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 84
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From: Hickam AFB Hawaii
I just put a ZZ4 in my 80 a couple months ago. I pulled the water pump that came on the engine off and put a GM aluminum Corvette short water pump on it. I had to grind down the head of one of the timing cover bolts and that was it. You can replace that one bolt with a panhead style bolt if you prefer, but it was just the one bolt that interferes with the back of the pump. There are some Corvette short water pumps out now that have a notch already built into the back to allow clearance for that bolt. I know Edelbrock makes a nice one, there may be others. Bottom line, yes you can use a short pump on the ZZ4 crate motor. You just need to either grind the one bolt down or replace it with a panhead bolt.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
I just put a ZZ4 in my 80 a couple months ago. I pulled the water pump that came on the engine off and put a GM aluminum Corvette short water pump on it. I had to grind down the head of one of the timing cover bolts and that was it. You can replace that one bolt with a panhead style bolt if you prefer, but it was just the one bolt that interferes with the back of the pump. There are some Corvette short water pumps out now that have a notch already built into the back to allow clearance for that bolt. I know Edelbrock makes a nice one, there may be others. Bottom line, yes you can use a short pump on the ZZ4 crate motor. You just need to either grind the one bolt down or replace it with a panhead bolt.
I used a stock steel pump and If I remember right I had to do 2 of the bolts.I ground the heads down and slotted them.I might have taken just a little out of the pump but not much.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
Regarding the short water pumps used with the composite timing chain cover, here is what the 2007 GM Performance Parts Catalog says on page 209:
"Can be used on ZZ4 engine with composite front timing cover by exchanging the bolts that hold the rear sheet metal plate to the pump with pan-head bolts P/N 14010976 or equaivalent aftermarket bolts." FWIW.
I went to GMPartsDirect.com, there is no photo of the bolts.
"Can be used on ZZ4 engine with composite front timing cover by exchanging the bolts that hold the rear sheet metal plate to the pump with pan-head bolts P/N 14010976 or equaivalent aftermarket bolts." FWIW.
I went to GMPartsDirect.com, there is no photo of the bolts.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 57
From: Mundelein Illinois
I have a 385 fastburn and I did the same as above but I then bought a Edlebrock 8812 water pump that is made to fit ZZ4 timing covers so you don't have to shave down bolts.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,379
Likes: 1,067
From: Virginia USA
Check out my FAQ on ZZ4 swaps. I think the flywheel P/N is wrong since this is over 5 years old.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/techti...=167&TopicID=3
There are a lot of good tech tips under the "other" catagory here on CF.
Check'em out.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/techti...=167&TopicID=3
There are a lot of good tech tips under the "other" catagory here on CF.
Check'em out.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
The plastic timing covers that come on the GM crate performance motors you reference (ZZ4 etc) do NOT , repeat, do NOT have the boss or hole to fit the crank sensor into ... it's a different cover. If you get a ZZ4 & need crank sensor, you'll need to get a replacement cover for a production truck etc ... new are available aftermarket ie "Pioneer" etc. Also, there's a thin stamped steel reluctor wheel that goes under the crank gear on a production motor ... you'll need that too. The single roller chain that's in the ZZ4/385 etc is plenty robust when used with OE Vsprings & Opump. Same chain's also in the circletrack race crates (x602, x603, x604). I doubt double roller fits under plastic anyway.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 716
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
I have a ZZ383 and wish I would have replaced that dang composite (nice word for plastic) cover prior to putting the engine in the car. I've had difficulty being able to read the very small timing marker that is cast into it and tried an after-market marker that were "supposed" to fit and didn't. If you have the opportunity to conveniently replace this cover now then I would recommend doing that. I wish I would have. I haven't heard of issues yet but my instinct tells me plastic parts have no business being installed as timing covers. I've had to make a custom pointer that I install whenever I time this engine so that I can see it. Otherwise w/all the accessories in the way could never get a good read on that pastic piece. At minimal I'd recommend putting a bright colored paint in that groove so it shows up a little better when your light is flashing on it.
