Zz454 new headers advice...
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: westmont illinois
Zz454 new headers advice...
I'm installing a new GM Performance crate enginge(ZZ454) in my '69 coupe 4spd, and will need to add headers. The March '09 issue of Super Chevy reccommends 2" headers, but not brand specific. I was hoping to get advice on what brand people seem to work best with this set-up. I'm "all-ears", awaiting your advice......Thanks!
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: League City TX
You options are pretty limited for "off the shelf" headers.
Hooker & Hedman are the only manufacturers that sell Big block C3 headers unless you go to a custom header fabricator.
The Hedmans only come with 2" primary tubes unless you want the side exit type. I have them on my car and they fit pretty good.
Hooker makes 1 7/8" & 2 1/8" primary sets. They cost a good bit more than the Hedmans but seem to be nicer.
If you dont have a problem with the price of the Hookers, you would probably be better off with the 1 7/8" prmaries.
A 2" tube is really too large for a 440 hp engine and will cost you torque in the lower and mid RPM ranges.
Hooker & Hedman are the only manufacturers that sell Big block C3 headers unless you go to a custom header fabricator.
The Hedmans only come with 2" primary tubes unless you want the side exit type. I have them on my car and they fit pretty good.
Hooker makes 1 7/8" & 2 1/8" primary sets. They cost a good bit more than the Hedmans but seem to be nicer.
If you dont have a problem with the price of the Hookers, you would probably be better off with the 1 7/8" prmaries.
A 2" tube is really too large for a 440 hp engine and will cost you torque in the lower and mid RPM ranges.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 16
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But also you do have to consider that engine is grossly underrated. The ZZ454 makes an easy 500 HP/510 FT/LB with a Performer RPM Air Gap and 3 in. exhaust (Super Chevy or maybe High Performance Chevy did an article about intake manifold and used that as their test mule).
Racer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Likes: 2
Can anyone post some part numbers for headers that will work with a zz454? I set the engine in this weekend and saw how very little room there is. I read about people having done it, but can't find any specifics on which headers people used. Thanks guys.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Coldbrook Nova Scotia
Im using a set of the Hedmans,part #500-68090 2 inch primary full length..The price is right and they fit without any issues..as for the tight fit/no room ,be thankful you dont have a tall deck motor..good luck.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: westmont illinois
Headers
I have a '69 427 4spd coupe. I put the 427 in the corner of the garage and stuffed in the ZZ454. We used Sanderson ceramic coated headers into the '69 side pipe. They are out of San Francisco. Part #BB5, chevy big block headers. Try www.sandersonheaders.com
Racer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Likes: 2
Slapshot - Do you have those headers on a ZZ454? I was wondering based on the D port vs round port headers. I can't tell on the website which ones they are? I have some other hedman's that are chevy BB, but didn't even think about round vs. D port until I went to see how they would fit (lesson learned).
Lfgmike - Did you have to do much grinding of the flange or get the hammer out to make these fit around the frame, steering, starter, etc?
Lfgmike - Did you have to do much grinding of the flange or get the hammer out to make these fit around the frame, steering, starter, etc?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: westmont illinois
headers
Yes, I have the ZZ454(aluminum heads, 440 hp) and we had to make it fit. I just went out to the car to look; on the passg side far header tube(closest to the radiator) we had to "dink" the tube. If you look there is a bolt that connects to the frame we had to go around. As far as I know, that was it, but I had my mechanic do the work. If you call J and C auto in Westmont Il: 630-968-9827 and ask for Wayne( he put on the headers and he would remember the project. Tell him 'Mike's yellow vette'.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 12
From: columbus oh
I'm installing a new GM Performance crate enginge(ZZ454) in my '69 coupe 4spd, and will need to add headers. The March '09 issue of Super Chevy reccommends 2" headers, but not brand specific. I was hoping to get advice on what brand people seem to work best with this set-up. I'm "all-ears", awaiting your advice......Thanks!
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 103
Likes: 8
From: Cataumet MA
I am using Hookers with the sidepipes, and they work well. You will have to massage them in order to get them to fit. The flanges will have to be ground, in order to clear the head bolts, and as someone else already mentioned, you will have to dimple the tube, in order to get a socket on the #1 spark plug. Doing all this on the engine stand, before you drop it in, will save you a lot of headaches, no matter which headers that you decide to use.
Oops, I see that you have already set the engine in. If you still haven't hooked everything up, pulling it out, and fitting them on the stand, will make things a whole lot easier.
Last edited by Kfmorgan; Aug 12, 2009 at 04:08 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
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From: Coldbrook Nova Scotia
FlyViper,no i don,t have the ZZ454 i have mine on a stroked 454 with Edelbrock aluminum heads,however the exhaust ports on these heads are not round..they are a D shape and my headers seal and fit well..
Racer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Likes: 2
The engine isn't in, I just set it on the mounts to take a look at the room (or lack there of), I also set in the headers I thought would work...no dice, hence my dilemma.
Slap...do you know if the port size on the ZZ454 is comparable to your edelbrock heads? I just don't want to buy another set of headers just to find out they're not going to seal well. How much "work" did you have to do to your headers to get everything to fit?
Slap...do you know if the port size on the ZZ454 is comparable to your edelbrock heads? I just don't want to buy another set of headers just to find out they're not going to seal well. How much "work" did you have to do to your headers to get everything to fit?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
Racer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Likes: 2
I got an email from Hedman Tech today. They said the 500-68090 is still a round port header. I don't mind having to grind some flange or ding a runner or two, but how is a 2" round port going to flow well with a D-shaped exhaust port? The mechanic who's helping me with this project doesn't seem to think a round on D-shape is a good idea for flow and fit.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 436
Likes: 2
I got a set of Hedman 68095 and ground down the flanges. They fit great now! It's pretty close in some parts, but overall I'm really surprised these ended up working. Hedman sells a square gasket supposedly made for the ZZ4 heads. Hopefully I won't have any seal/flow issues. Slap/baxsom, did you use that square gasket they make?
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Coldbrook Nova Scotia
I used the round gaskets that came with the headers,when i changed out the motor/put headers back on i used an off the shelf Mr gasket (in stock) both worked well with no issues..I,m sure there are much better headers out there..(as suggested) however for the money and maybe 3-5 ponies they are a good option,Glad to see they worked for you!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
first i did have to grind the bottom of the flanges a bit to clear the head bolts
i used the suggested edelbrock gasket
the gasket itself matched the port really well and the round header was larger than the D.
when i pulled the edelbrock heads back off after i dropped a valve in it, there was a perfect shape of the header mating surface (the raised ring around each hole) in the gasket. perfectly round black mark where the hole mated to the gasket.
if there would have been a leak it would have shown itself on the white gasket.
i will give you that the heads were only on for maybe 10 hours of driving though (see my posts on the shop that screwed up my valve spring install and caused me to drop one)
i used the suggested edelbrock gasket
the gasket itself matched the port really well and the round header was larger than the D.
when i pulled the edelbrock heads back off after i dropped a valve in it, there was a perfect shape of the header mating surface (the raised ring around each hole) in the gasket. perfectly round black mark where the hole mated to the gasket.
if there would have been a leak it would have shown itself on the white gasket.
i will give you that the heads were only on for maybe 10 hours of driving though (see my posts on the shop that screwed up my valve spring install and caused me to drop one)
