I want to upgrade to a 5 speed OD behind a ZZ454; but I want an easy solution (no fabrication / multiple install fitments). From all the threads I've read, it appears that the following statements can be made about these 2 choices:

Keisler TKO 500/600:
Off the shelf complete kit
Perfect Fit
No Fabrication/grinding required
Lots of Vettes running TKOs
Weight: ??

Richmond SUPER STREET 5-Speed with OD
3 Ratio Options for 1st Gear (2.89,3.06,3.33)
Stock Length
Possibly easier to Install/Remove
Stock Drive Shaft
Mount Bracket Fabrication Required or VettesByDesign Kit
Other than Mount Bracket (No fab/grinding)
OD Relatively new offering / not much history
Weight: 106.5 dry

Either solution will totally rejuvenate my 69.


Please, let me know if I have missed anything; or more importantly, if you take exception to any of the above statements. I want to make the right choice and not have it cost me a lot of money and grief.

 

compare the weight.?

 

Mark,
What are your rear end gears and tire size? That will help you decide what tranny gear ratio's you want/need. Have you talked with Keven at Vettesbydesign yet? He will help you with ALL your questions.

I'm in Canada so the $$ exchange is killing me right now. I will have to wait for another season Oh well..... I just received my power steering from Vettesbydesign and hope to install it this weekend.

Good luck on your research for the tranny.

shmoky

 

I guess what I want to know is:

Is the TKO really a Perfect Fit?

Is the Richmond 5 speed OD a perfect fit using the Long Shifter and VettesByDesign mounting bracket?

My definition of: "Perfect Fit" is installs in 1 day with no tech support calls (I accept that there will be lots of swear words; but No bending, grinding, cutting, or fabrication of parts or chassis).

At age 61 Ease of install and reliability are my major concerns.

Please PM me if you don't feel comfortable posting.

 

I would go with the Richmond 6-speed, go with the 1st gear ratio that gives you a overall (considering your rear gear ratio) of 10:1 to 11:1, that seems to work on my cars for street driving, 454 will pull the od ratio of .62 on the six speed= great highway mileage and unbelievable acceleration 1st thru 5th. The prices I checked in the Summit catalog, the 6-speed is $400-$500 less than the Super street 5-speed. I have installed 4 of the 6-speeds in c-3's, trans mount bracket is easy to fabricate. I hope you have a removable crossmember or you will probably want to make it removable for trans installation. If you are thinking that the 6-speed is not strong enough for the engine you are running, my experience is you will tear everything else out of the car before you will hurt that trans.

 

Mark..
I have the TKO-600RR in a '68 convertible.
You have to realise these cars are old, and they were assembled by hand, so there are variations between cars so there may be a need for some additional work irrespective of what you buy.
But that's what makes it satisfying... overcoming challenges.

Age can see the floor sag a bit, which can, like in my case, cause issues with getting the trans to sit at correct angle. A bit of grinding necessary to improve alignment.
I also had some issues with fitting a clutch assembly, but that was due to my custom right hand drive modification. I had an auto previously.

If you have a manual box currently, then you should consider modifying your trans cross member with a removable section to allow easy future trans work. Do a search.. there are some good posts with pics.

Other than those few things, the kit I obtained contained everything required.
I installed a new motor at the same time, so a test fit on the bench verified that box mated properly before putting into car.

With your ZZ454, off idle torque is not a problem, so you want 1st gear to stretch out a bit. Your diff ratio will also define what box ratios will suit your driving needs.

 

OzzyTom: Thanks for the post, you raise a good point, about the removable cross member.

I would hate to have to pull engine/trans to change a clutch.

btw: Do you recall what you had to grind on to get the proper alignment of the drive line?

 

I am having a TKO 600 installed as we speak. The crossmember is being modified as per Bullshark's thread and pics. (Thanks Bullshark!!!) I also have a zz454 installed and am currently running 3.73's in the rear. I am hoping to achieve decent cruising rpm's without giving up the tire shredding low end I had!!! I will let you know in a day or so, but for right now all I can do is and try to concentrate on work!!!

 

My installation was far from typical as my whole engine bay and interior has been modified for right hand drive, so I anticipated I'd have a few issues. My firewall has been completely refabricated to relocate the brake booster, steering and heater box.... It's a "mirror image" of the stock setup.
I noticed my bell housing fouled on the firewall first, and getting at the left rear trans mount bolts was impossible, so motor and trans came out and I cut out and re-fibreglassed those sections which fouled, with a scalloped profile to provide clearance.

With engine out it was easy enough to finish and repaint.

I had issues with locating and fitting my clutch pedal and hydraulic master cylinder too... once again, custom fabricated for my app.
I reckon the motor and trans were pulled and installed about 5 times before things were good enough to drive.

Then I developed a vibration which only occured at 45~50mph.
I had insufficient clearance to raise the rear of the trans high enough to get the ideal angles between trans, tailshaft and diff.
The trans was fouling on the underside of the tunnel.
So the trans came out again, and some additional clearances were added. I propped it up as high as I could, but it is not ideal.
I still have a noticeable vibration at 45mph which I assume is due to mis-alignment.
I've tolerated it for a year, but I have to get onto it again.
I'm changing out my diff to a 3.7 this winter, so I'll tackle the issue of alignment then. I may have to carve out some more of the trans tunnel for more clearance.

Like I said, my situation is unique, so don't be put off.
Many guys have installed the tremec kits without any issues at all.

The 5sp has transformed my car completely...
well, adding 200 horses helped a little too

You'll love it!

 

I have the 5 speed and I made my own trans bracket.

You need a 26 tooth spline from a TH 400, and you have to get a combo U joint from Napa, one that fits the driveshaft and the spline. I'm not sure if you have an option to use a Muncie or the TH 400 spline with the current Richmond 5 speeds. You may have to trim the shift rods, at least I had to, but then I have the Hurst shifter.

Those are all the mods I made, and I did not modify the crossmember

 

One thing I learned about my TKO 600 after I purchased it was that it does not shift so hot above 6100rpm. I'm not sure if the Richmond has the same issue, but it might be worth considering if you ever shift above 6000rpm. Other than that, it has been a great set-up with a straight forward install (I pulled my motor when I installed it the first time).

 

If you buy one of our kits you would not have to remove the engine. It is a tight fit but if you read the instructions there is no cutting or modifying.

It is a one day deal(based on your skill)

 

The Richmond is built like a Muncie with shifting forks and rods and a Muncie or Hurst style shifter. The TKO's use a internal rail shifter. I have a TKO 500 and anyone that is being honest will tell you (if they have shifted a Muncie) is that a TKO does not feel like a Muncie when you shift it. That having been said, it wasn't built to imitate the feel of a Muncie. The TKO was designed to eliminate some of the wear and rattles that the Muncie design can eventually have. If you like the "feel" then the rattles are not a problem.

I don't know this for sure but I do not believe you would have any more problem shifting a Richmond above 6K than you would a Muncie.

 

That's not quite true...my 5 speed is the original Dough Nash, same as Richmond, no problem shifting at any RPM level, but have to conscious what gear I'm in as there is no reverse lockout on this POS Hurst shifter.

 

I went with the Richmond 6 speed. Main advantage is that it's available with a huge selection of gear ratios for all the gears. Only fabrication was a modified trans mount. That was easier than I had expected and only took about 30 minutes to do.

 

I think if you reread my post you will agree that I am saying that I do not think there would be any problem shifting a Richmond at high RPM. Therefore we are in agreement! Don't you agree?

 

Yep, no argument here....

 

If you had two five speed od trannies and you told me to choose which one. I would pick the heaviest one. Big strong case and heavier gears. TQ rating usually goes up with weight

The next things to look at is oil capacity, shifter position, ease of shifting, and provisions for an external cooler.

 

Was I just lucky to get one that shifts fine over 7000 all the time?

 

Based upon the posts so far, I think for my needs (very limited hard driving) either transmission would be a good choice.

What concerns me now is the shifter to use on the Richmond if thats the way I go. I have had mixed experiences with the Hurst Shifters and after reading some other threads I don't want to deal with the install. Besides, this car is mostly for cruising.

Does anyone have the Long Shifter that comes with the Richmond installed in their car; and if so could they post a picture please. I don't want the Corvette to look like a Rat Rod.

I know the TKO shifter will look just fine.

Also what about reverse lockout (can I get it on either Transmission)?

Thanks for all the input.