C3 fuses..
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From: Cairns Queensland
C3 fuses..
Hi all,
Im having starting probs with my 68 327.
To avoid the rather lengthy tale, and in the hope of a quick solution (ever hopeful) can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a "Main" OR "ignition" fuse, as there doesnt seem to be any in the fusebox. The closest I seem to have are three spade connectors (or at least that is what they look like) with BAT, IGN and ACC (if I recall correctly) but these are nothing like the actual fuseholders either side.
Sorry if it's a stupid question.... but it could help me a great deal to find out.
Thanks
Im having starting probs with my 68 327.
To avoid the rather lengthy tale, and in the hope of a quick solution (ever hopeful) can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a "Main" OR "ignition" fuse, as there doesnt seem to be any in the fusebox. The closest I seem to have are three spade connectors (or at least that is what they look like) with BAT, IGN and ACC (if I recall correctly) but these are nothing like the actual fuseholders either side.
Sorry if it's a stupid question.... but it could help me a great deal to find out.
Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,223
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From: Fort Wayne IN
http://www.nrjvette.com/johdotukset/...tte%201968.pdf
In addition to fuses you have fusible links, one of which is down at your starter solenoid as the diagram shows.
In addition to fuses you have fusible links, one of which is down at your starter solenoid as the diagram shows.
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From: Cairns Queensland
Thanks for the response Bluthunder.
I had a look at that diagram. It shows a Brown then red cable. Mine appears to be red throughout.
Apologies in advance for my rather non technical descriptions (I am learning as I go) but the "link" appears to go to a connector central on the bulkhead. I cannot see any faults.. I will test the connection tommorow.
Could I ask though, what would be the symptoms if this was faulty.
Would it cause both the failure of the starter AND no spark when turned over (obviously bypassing the starting circuit to crank it over) ??
I had a look at that diagram. It shows a Brown then red cable. Mine appears to be red throughout.
Apologies in advance for my rather non technical descriptions (I am learning as I go) but the "link" appears to go to a connector central on the bulkhead. I cannot see any faults.. I will test the connection tommorow.
Could I ask though, what would be the symptoms if this was faulty.
Would it cause both the failure of the starter AND no spark when turned over (obviously bypassing the starting circuit to crank it over) ??
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
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From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Cairns,
Going through the wiring on my '74 at the moment as I hope to get it registered soon. My understanding is that any RED wire is connected more or less straight to the battery UNFUSED via the starter terminal or the connector block under the left fender.
An ORANGE wire has FUSED power from the battery, and other colours describe other functions. For example, a PURPLE wire is used for short uses of power, such as starter motors. Except for the main power lead from the battery to the starter motor, all BLACK wires are earths, or ground wires.
To complete the circuit from the starter motor back to the battery, there is a ground strap between the engine block just forward of the starter to the right engine mount bracket and via the chassis to the battery. The negative lead from the battery goes to the chassis just forward of the battery. You need to check all of these cable mounting points for good electrical contact and hopefully this is where your problem will be.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 months to go
Going through the wiring on my '74 at the moment as I hope to get it registered soon. My understanding is that any RED wire is connected more or less straight to the battery UNFUSED via the starter terminal or the connector block under the left fender.
An ORANGE wire has FUSED power from the battery, and other colours describe other functions. For example, a PURPLE wire is used for short uses of power, such as starter motors. Except for the main power lead from the battery to the starter motor, all BLACK wires are earths, or ground wires.
To complete the circuit from the starter motor back to the battery, there is a ground strap between the engine block just forward of the starter to the right engine mount bracket and via the chassis to the battery. The negative lead from the battery goes to the chassis just forward of the battery. You need to check all of these cable mounting points for good electrical contact and hopefully this is where your problem will be.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 months to go
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From: Cairns Queensland
Aussiejohn
Thanks for your response.
(Im guessing the regards are part of your sig, as Im sure you guessed I am also in your part of the world - give or take a few large states).
Sounds like you have some work to do for the rego? My guy has inspected the car - even though it isnt running - and I just need seat belts for rego.. though these seem to be an issue of their own.
Anyway, to the task at hand. Im really unsure about the "red" wire to which I referred, as clearly the wiring diagram shows a brown fusable link. So it maybe that the link has been replaced at some point, by a standard wire?
I should also probably reiterate my opening post, in that I was hoping for some magical fuse and so didnt post my 'full story' so to speak.. leaving out all of the 'what happened' and 'what I have checked' elements.
Nonetheless some v good tips re: wire colours.
Tomorrow I will check the items suggested so far, and if I have no luck I will bore you all with the full saga
Thanks again
CairnsFella
Thanks for your response.
(Im guessing the regards are part of your sig, as Im sure you guessed I am also in your part of the world - give or take a few large states).
Sounds like you have some work to do for the rego? My guy has inspected the car - even though it isnt running - and I just need seat belts for rego.. though these seem to be an issue of their own.
Anyway, to the task at hand. Im really unsure about the "red" wire to which I referred, as clearly the wiring diagram shows a brown fusable link. So it maybe that the link has been replaced at some point, by a standard wire?
I should also probably reiterate my opening post, in that I was hoping for some magical fuse and so didnt post my 'full story' so to speak.. leaving out all of the 'what happened' and 'what I have checked' elements.
Nonetheless some v good tips re: wire colours.
Tomorrow I will check the items suggested so far, and if I have no luck I will bore you all with the full saga
Thanks again
CairnsFella
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From: In limbo
St. Jude Donor '13-'15, '17 thru '22
My understanding is that any RED wire is connected more or less straight to the battery UNFUSED via the starter terminal or the connector block under the left fender.
An ORANGE wire has FUSED power from the battery, and other colours describe other functions. For example, a PURPLE wire is used for short uses of power, such as starter motors. Except for the main power lead from the battery to the starter motor, all BLACK wires are earths, or ground wires.
An ORANGE wire has FUSED power from the battery, and other colours describe other functions. For example, a PURPLE wire is used for short uses of power, such as starter motors. Except for the main power lead from the battery to the starter motor, all BLACK wires are earths, or ground wires.
My car is a '70, and I believe that the wiring for '70 is the same for '71, and from memory, I think it is the same for '69. I do not know if it is the same for '68. You also don't specify auto/manual or points/electronic ignition, so what follows may or may not be applicable to your car. However, my car ('70 manual with points) has a thick black wire that is coming directly from the + side of the battery that provides the power to the starter. There is no fuse on this wire, and I do not believe there is a fusible link either, in other words, be careful what you do with this wire! Coming off the solenoid is a red wire that provides power to the harness, a yellow wire that connects to the hot side of the coil (used to bypass the ballast resistor when starting, no fuse or fusible link) and the purple wire that comes from the ignition switch (and has the neutral safety switch in the loop). All of these wires attach to the solenoid. Attached to the starter casing itself are two black wires. One thin one is a ground from the blower motor, the other is a thick grounding strap that connects to the frame a short distance away.
That said, you didn't tell the lengthy tale of what your problem is. But one thing I will note: Once the engine starts and I let go of the ignition switch (so that it goes from "start" to "on"), the power to the hot side of the coil from the yellow wire switches off. The engine is then dependent on the power from the ballast resistor to generate spark. Off the top of my head, I don't know if the ballast resistor wire (also a black wire on my car) has a fuse or fusible link in the circuit, but if you are having a situation where the motor runs when the key is in start and dies when you let go of the switch, that is where I would turn my attention.
Hope this helps.
PK
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From: Cairns Queensland
Hooooooooorahhhhhh
Well.. for all those poor souls that would have kindly listened to the full saga... which I had actually begun to type.. I can now spare you all as the little beast is once again LIVING !!!!!!!!
Suffice to say, my starting problems have involved much forum reading, internet scouring, contorting manouvers in and around the car, new starter moter, multimeter readings, jiggling, poking, head bashing, and sulking (and thats just the highlights).
... perhaps I'll summarise though.
I was taking my car to the port for shipping here in Aus, when I stopped for a break, and the car would not restart. The raodside assist basically said I had a duff starter. (I thought it was the immobiliser), but he tow started me.. partially proving his point.. but as the immobiliser acts on a number of systems, not totally disproving mine (note: immobiliser already on the car when purchased , and company no longer in business !!!!)
I found out that my friend who had looked after the car had had similar problems, but ultimately the car did start again of its own accord.. hence it was fine when I picked it up.
When the car arrived here, I had a drained battery. I bought a charger, but it didnt charge the battery. As it was a newish battery I swapped the charger, but although I could put it in the car and get some clicking I was unsure if it was fully charged. The local parts shop kindly tested the battery and tried it on their super duper charger, and this seemed to get the battery to full charge. However hopes kindled by the assistant that the poorly charged battery was probably to blame was unfounded. No Go.
I then turned to the suspect starter. I tested it in the car using the screwdriver method. No luck. I appeared not to hav a feed to my 12v purple wire, so thinking this must be the problem, I bypassed the feed from another supply under the hood, and still no go. I took off the starter and tried direct on a battery.. and........ nope
So I took the starter to a shop that aslo tested it and they also said it was buggered. So new starter in hand, I zipped home, whacked it on.. and.... NO GOOOOO..
Of course, you may have noticed before that I had no feed to the purple 12v wire. Correct.. but I am really quite an amature at these things so I hoped I had mistested... especially as there seemed to be a demonstrable problem with the previous starter. Inded this seemed bourne out by the fact that the new starter would turn over using the terminal bypass method, and the scavanged feed method.
(PS... all the info for anything I tried was found trawling through these forums... I did leave it until as late as poss before asking daft questions).
Anyway, turn over she did (or should I say she "cranked") but start she did not.
I then undertook a couple of days investigation into the mystical world of Fusible Links, and to a slightly less mystical degree.. fuses. I am sure all this proved to acheive was weakening the already fragile wiring, as I tinkered and prodded....
Finally (after changing all the fuses to be on the safe side).. I simple located where the pesky darned blithering buggering immobiliser took the ignition feed, and bypassed the unit straight back into the original feed...... and VIOLA !!!!!!
I couldnt believe it.
Was it the immoboliser all along??? Could the busted starter (alleged) have caused a problem with the immobiliser, or could I have caused it when installing the new starter (or removing the old one).
Frankly, at this stage, I dont care. I wont be swapping back the starters to check, thats for sure (and the new starter is much smaller, so it may help with header clearance when I get to such things anyway).
I do fear that I have irrreperably weakened a lot of the existing wiring though, so maybe a new harness will be a good move before any "interesting" work on the engine.
I would finally like to thank those who assisted in the matter, and those that undoubtedly would have done had I not had success at this stage.
I am off to celebrate (and turn the engine off before I die of CO2 poisining).
Thanks again......
Suffice to say, my starting problems have involved much forum reading, internet scouring, contorting manouvers in and around the car, new starter moter, multimeter readings, jiggling, poking, head bashing, and sulking (and thats just the highlights).
... perhaps I'll summarise though.
I was taking my car to the port for shipping here in Aus, when I stopped for a break, and the car would not restart. The raodside assist basically said I had a duff starter. (I thought it was the immobiliser), but he tow started me.. partially proving his point.. but as the immobiliser acts on a number of systems, not totally disproving mine (note: immobiliser already on the car when purchased , and company no longer in business !!!!)
I found out that my friend who had looked after the car had had similar problems, but ultimately the car did start again of its own accord.. hence it was fine when I picked it up.
When the car arrived here, I had a drained battery. I bought a charger, but it didnt charge the battery. As it was a newish battery I swapped the charger, but although I could put it in the car and get some clicking I was unsure if it was fully charged. The local parts shop kindly tested the battery and tried it on their super duper charger, and this seemed to get the battery to full charge. However hopes kindled by the assistant that the poorly charged battery was probably to blame was unfounded. No Go.
I then turned to the suspect starter. I tested it in the car using the screwdriver method. No luck. I appeared not to hav a feed to my 12v purple wire, so thinking this must be the problem, I bypassed the feed from another supply under the hood, and still no go. I took off the starter and tried direct on a battery.. and........ nope
So I took the starter to a shop that aslo tested it and they also said it was buggered. So new starter in hand, I zipped home, whacked it on.. and.... NO GOOOOO..
Of course, you may have noticed before that I had no feed to the purple 12v wire. Correct.. but I am really quite an amature at these things so I hoped I had mistested... especially as there seemed to be a demonstrable problem with the previous starter. Inded this seemed bourne out by the fact that the new starter would turn over using the terminal bypass method, and the scavanged feed method.
(PS... all the info for anything I tried was found trawling through these forums... I did leave it until as late as poss before asking daft questions).
Anyway, turn over she did (or should I say she "cranked") but start she did not.
I then undertook a couple of days investigation into the mystical world of Fusible Links, and to a slightly less mystical degree.. fuses. I am sure all this proved to acheive was weakening the already fragile wiring, as I tinkered and prodded....
Finally (after changing all the fuses to be on the safe side).. I simple located where the pesky darned blithering buggering immobiliser took the ignition feed, and bypassed the unit straight back into the original feed...... and VIOLA !!!!!!
I couldnt believe it.
Was it the immoboliser all along??? Could the busted starter (alleged) have caused a problem with the immobiliser, or could I have caused it when installing the new starter (or removing the old one).
Frankly, at this stage, I dont care. I wont be swapping back the starters to check, thats for sure (and the new starter is much smaller, so it may help with header clearance when I get to such things anyway).
I do fear that I have irrreperably weakened a lot of the existing wiring though, so maybe a new harness will be a good move before any "interesting" work on the engine.
I would finally like to thank those who assisted in the matter, and those that undoubtedly would have done had I not had success at this stage.
I am off to celebrate (and turn the engine off before I die of CO2 poisining).
Thanks again......
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Cairns,
Good to hear that you've got the beast going at last. I've just been trying to get my number plate lights to work and found that the main wiring harness behind the number plate recess had been cut almost right through. Severed were two earth wires and the power leads to the right hand number plate light and the fuel sender unit wire. Only the insulation was holding it all together.
My mate Peter has soldered all the wires back together and the # plate light now works. As soon as I put the IP back and plug in the harness tomorrow, I'll find out if the fuel gauge works.
As for PKguitar, I can't follow his meaning - he appears to agree with me about the colour of the wires, but says he disagrees. Maybe a misunderstanding. Anyway, enjoy your car and take it for a drive. I hope that I'm only a week or so away from driving mine.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 months to go
Good to hear that you've got the beast going at last. I've just been trying to get my number plate lights to work and found that the main wiring harness behind the number plate recess had been cut almost right through. Severed were two earth wires and the power leads to the right hand number plate light and the fuel sender unit wire. Only the insulation was holding it all together.
My mate Peter has soldered all the wires back together and the # plate light now works. As soon as I put the IP back and plug in the harness tomorrow, I'll find out if the fuel gauge works.
As for PKguitar, I can't follow his meaning - he appears to agree with me about the colour of the wires, but says he disagrees. Maybe a misunderstanding. Anyway, enjoy your car and take it for a drive. I hope that I'm only a week or so away from driving mine.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 months to go
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Cairns,
Forgot to mention, I believe that HQ front inertia reel seat belts will get you thru the RWC. I have them fitted to my '74, don't know if they'll fit your car. A friend with a '68 fitted them to his and said that it sailed thru the RWC. BTW, my brother lives up in PD, maybe you know him. He runs Coral Sea Design.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 months to go
Forgot to mention, I believe that HQ front inertia reel seat belts will get you thru the RWC. I have them fitted to my '74, don't know if they'll fit your car. A friend with a '68 fitted them to his and said that it sailed thru the RWC. BTW, my brother lives up in PD, maybe you know him. He runs Coral Sea Design.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 months to go
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From: Cairns Queensland
Aussiejohn,
Sorry, dont know Coral Sea Design. I dont really get to PD much ( Im not really very posh
)
A Little unsure what you mean by HQ (did you mean "high Quality" or is it a brand ????) In any case, the guy inspecting mune wants ADR approved belts, and has some issue with the buckle angles. I already have inertia reels fitted that were OK for England !?!?!).
Anyway, hope you dont have any probs with your fuel guage.
Good luck with it all, and keep us posted.
Dave.
PS... Unfortunately cant go for a drive yet without reg.. just a few meters up and down the drive.. but I havent taken it of the stand yet.
Sorry, dont know Coral Sea Design. I dont really get to PD much ( Im not really very posh
)A Little unsure what you mean by HQ (did you mean "high Quality" or is it a brand ????) In any case, the guy inspecting mune wants ADR approved belts, and has some issue with the buckle angles. I already have inertia reels fitted that were OK for England !?!?!).
Anyway, hope you dont have any probs with your fuel guage.
Good luck with it all, and keep us posted.
Dave.
PS... Unfortunately cant go for a drive yet without reg.. just a few meters up and down the drive.. but I havent taken it of the stand yet.
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From: Cairns Queensland
Ahhhhh.. I seeee.
Sorry, probably didnt mention I'd only been in oz for 5 years (Hence the car having been sent over from England... and of course hence all the whinging in the first post :-) .. typical Pommie - or is that Pommy .. never sure..)
Thanks for clearing it up anyhow.
Sorry, probably didnt mention I'd only been in oz for 5 years (Hence the car having been sent over from England... and of course hence all the whinging in the first post :-) .. typical Pommie - or is that Pommy .. never sure..)
Thanks for clearing it up anyhow.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
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From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Pommie/Pommy???
Cairns,
Actually it's P.O.M.E. It was printed on the uniforms of all of the involuntary early settlers. Stands for Prisoner Of Mother England, according to the Eminent Professor Barry Humphries. Surely you've seen the movie "The Adventures of Barry McKenzie"?
Go to any wrecking yard and see if you can find a good HQ and grab the front belts from it. You should still be able to buy new ones from Rare Spares or Repco, Burston, etc.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 monthd to go
Actually it's P.O.M.E. It was printed on the uniforms of all of the involuntary early settlers. Stands for Prisoner Of Mother England, according to the Eminent Professor Barry Humphries. Surely you've seen the movie "The Adventures of Barry McKenzie"?
Go to any wrecking yard and see if you can find a good HQ and grab the front belts from it. You should still be able to buy new ones from Rare Spares or Repco, Burston, etc.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 monthd to go
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From: Cairns Queensland
Hmm.. interesting that POME thing... perhaps I am being a little simple, but given the explanation it would seem more logical to call Aussies POME's ....
.... Im probably just missing the point (its been known all to often !!!)
Ive got the guy coming to discuss the belts later this week, so I'll put your suggestions forward.
It seems with ADR's etc, there are levels of interpretation, and of course most people involved seem to want thier pound of flesh, so I am often a little paranoid about suggesting "cost saving" measures to such people... I feel like I am rather in thier firm grip
Its probably more to do with being out in the sticks up here and having much less choice.
Anyway, will let you know how the suggestion goes down.
.... Im probably just missing the point (its been known all to often !!!)
Ive got the guy coming to discuss the belts later this week, so I'll put your suggestions forward.
It seems with ADR's etc, there are levels of interpretation, and of course most people involved seem to want thier pound of flesh, so I am often a little paranoid about suggesting "cost saving" measures to such people... I feel like I am rather in thier firm grip
Its probably more to do with being out in the sticks up here and having much less choice.
Anyway, will let you know how the suggestion goes down.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 100
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From: Long Jetty NSW
Hi Cairns Fella,
From another down under ........... wreckers are not supposed to sell second hand seat belts, particularly from almost 40 year old cars.
This has been some traffic on the local forum about seat belts, here is a short quote. I believe the guy mentioned below will know what you want.
Hemco is the Manufacturer
Wayne Fitzgerald is the guy to call, he's the Sales Manager. I spoke to him today and he's happy to post out belt kits for you guys.
email: hemco.wayne@bigpond.com
118 Learmonth Street
Ballarat VIC 3350
From another down under ........... wreckers are not supposed to sell second hand seat belts, particularly from almost 40 year old cars.
This has been some traffic on the local forum about seat belts, here is a short quote. I believe the guy mentioned below will know what you want.
Hemco is the Manufacturer
Wayne Fitzgerald is the guy to call, he's the Sales Manager. I spoke to him today and he's happy to post out belt kits for you guys.
email: hemco.wayne@bigpond.com
118 Learmonth Street
Ballarat VIC 3350
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From: Cairns Queensland
Bob,
Thanks for your assistance.
I believe that is also the view of my inspector, as he has also said I must have a new belt. Of course, I would agree it makes sense not to use old belts per se, however I am a bit confused after reading some of the rules given that my belt (inertia reel) was ok in the UK.
(I am not trying to suggest UK rules are better, but merely that I have read reference to approved UK belts being suitable).
Anyway, if thats the only thing in the way of my rego, I am not toooo disheartend.
Thanks again.
PS... STILL STARTS
Thanks for your assistance.
I believe that is also the view of my inspector, as he has also said I must have a new belt. Of course, I would agree it makes sense not to use old belts per se, however I am a bit confused after reading some of the rules given that my belt (inertia reel) was ok in the UK.
(I am not trying to suggest UK rules are better, but merely that I have read reference to approved UK belts being suitable).
Anyway, if thats the only thing in the way of my rego, I am not toooo disheartend.
Thanks again.
PS... STILL STARTS
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 673
Likes: 2
From: Melbourne Victoria
[/QUOTE] You should still be able to buy new ones from Rare Spares or Repco, Burston, etc.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 monthd to go[/QUOTE]
My '74 has 'belts from a HQ Holden from RareSpares
(the price sticker was still on them-not sure how much
they cost the previous owner, as the sticker has faded)
Cheers.
Gav (from Melbourne).
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
4 monthd to go[/QUOTE]
My '74 has 'belts from a HQ Holden from RareSpares
(the price sticker was still on them-not sure how much
they cost the previous owner, as the sticker has faded)
Cheers.
Gav (from Melbourne).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 755
Likes: 1
From: Hobart Tasmania
I had a problem with my starter or something else related not long after I got my car. Did all the tests and it took a long time to find the source of the problem which turned out to be a bad earth on the body from the starter.
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From: Cairns Queensland
Chris,
Funny thing I found was the extatic releif at sorting the problem almost overshadowed the frustration of having the problem.... almost.
I'm pretty sure I will have some more issues in the not too distant though, given the state of my old wiring as I discovered during my fault find.
As I may have mentioned earlier, I am now thinking of replacing some / all of the harnesses BUT I am also undecided about upgrading my 327, or either getting a crate or bulding from another block and keeping my 327 intact. If I end up with a future plan to remove my current engine, I may wait until then for the rewiring.
Funny thing I found was the extatic releif at sorting the problem almost overshadowed the frustration of having the problem.... almost.
I'm pretty sure I will have some more issues in the not too distant though, given the state of my old wiring as I discovered during my fault find.
As I may have mentioned earlier, I am now thinking of replacing some / all of the harnesses BUT I am also undecided about upgrading my 327, or either getting a crate or bulding from another block and keeping my 327 intact. If I end up with a future plan to remove my current engine, I may wait until then for the rewiring.
