I am trying to finish up my suspension rebuild and running into problems. I changed all the bushings front and back, new ball joints, tie rod ends, 460# springs (They are in right), and white KYB shocks. 1st off, the poly a-arm bushings squeek like hell. Very bad idea, and I will most likely have to take the loss and start all over with rubber. What a dumb ***! (Shaking my head) I should have known better. 2nd, the freaking thing looks like a Jeep! It is way to high! The front measures 29.25 at the bottom of the fender opening and the back is over 30. I must have done something wrong? Other than the front springs not being seated right, what could it be? Will the new shocks make it sit to high? I am ready to cut the coil springs but I wanted to make sure I would be able to lower the back first. I installed 8" bolts and this only dropped the back about 1". But... with the longer bolts, the end of the spring is very close to the tire. About 1/4", 3/8" max. Is this safe? Sure looks like I will cut the tire on the first bump I hit.
Anyway, to sift through the BS:
1) Why is my car so high after suspension rebuild?
2) Should the rear spring be so close to the tire (P255/60/15) with the 8" bolts?
Thanks in advance,
Eric

 

Did you wait to tighten the A-arm bolts until the car was on the ground?

 

Nope. Thanks for the reply. I don't get it though? Both the upper and lower moved fairly easily prior to installing the spring and hooking them up to the knuckle? Are you talking about the bolts in the ends of the shafts?

 

The polys work a little differently than the rubber bushings.

Have you driven it yet?
Anything done to the rear besides bolts and shocks?

 

That's exactly what he is talking about. Sure they moved easily before there was any load on them. Gotta lube the snot outta the poly, preload the suspension with the full weight of the car on the a-arms before tightening the bolts all the way.

 

What was the factory height? I'll bet you're pretty close. New, these cars sat up pretty good.

Sorry about the poly squeeks. Did you first lube them up with the correct pasty lubricant, inside and out prior installing into their shells?

 

Some observations/questions...

Poly bushings require proper lubrication with an appropriate grease upon assembly to prevent binding (and squeaking), which you didn't mention doing.

Did you fully settle the suspension before noting that it sits high?

Fender height isn't the most accurate measurement to go by when setting ride heights, rather the Z's and D's.

Bumps aren't the real issue with spring/tire clearance, it's sidewall deflection. I've never been aware of 255's presenting a problem. What BS have your wheels?

 

Noonie,
Yes sir. All new poly bushings.

 

weimer20,
So just jack it back up, loosen the 8 bolts, set it back down and then tighten them back up. I'll give it a try.

 

IMCO, poly bushings are fine for applications where movement is only in one plane (CA's, bars), but not in TA's or camber struts where geometry dictates that movement is in 3D.

 

Yes sir I did. I used what came with the parts from VBP. Mabe I didn't use enough? I'm sure the squeek is my fault, and the rest of the FUs too!

 

I did use what came with the parts. Must not have been enough? It is wicked squeeky. Pretty sure I' be back under there soon with rubber.

I checked along the rail and it's about 9" everywhere.

I don't know what you mean by "What bs"?

Thanks for the reply.

 

All lot of people use the fender height, or the specified frame height.
I just did both of mine and set it so that there is 1 1/2" max space between the top of the tire and the fender. You can still have a lower fender to ground dimension with smaller diameter tires and still have it look pretty odd. That gap is where I like the looks and realistically, I would not want them any lower for road and obstacle purposes.

A lot of people don't, but with the same tires as yours on the rear, 255-60-15, and factory alum rims, a bolt longer than the oem 6" almost touches the sidewall. I wasn't so much worried about sidewall flex as spring movement. I read a comment the other day that stated the spring stays in the same relationship to the arm in all positions. That is true, but the spring end does travel thru an arc as does the strut and does grow longer when compressed and that alone would have put me into the sidewall. Jack up the car just a little to simulate bumps and dips and notice how much that clearance will change.

I ended up with a Guldstrand rear spring shortened 3/4" and a 7" bolt.
Fronts were stock springs cut 1 full coil at the top.

 

Noonie,
I'm with you on the spring beeing to close. Right, wrong or indifferent, I am not going down the road like it is now. Way too close. The tire wouldn't last 10 mins.
I can put my fist through the gap above my tires. What the guys are saying here I'm sure is the problem. I shouldn't have tightened the bolts with the thing off the ground. I am headed out now to rectify the situation.
I am inexperienced, at Vettes anyway! Thanks Pal.

 

bs = back spacing of the wheel.

There are thousands of cars out there running poly bushings with no squeaking problems. Something is wrong. Either not enough lube and or tightening them down with the suspension at full droop. You need to do it with the weight of it on the car. I have run poly bushing on different cars with no probelms. The first one I did I did not use enough lube and it squeaked. Lube is your friend.

 

I just looked in my box of bushings, and there was no package of lube? can i use lithium grease to assemble them.

 

I installed poly bushings all around and don't have any squeaking issues. I used mobil 1 synthetic bearing grease (very liberally) and so far so good. The car sat all winter under a car cover and still no squeaks. I feel you didn't use enough or the wrong stuff was used. Like I said, I used A LOT.

As for sitting high, like it has been said, these old cars did used to sit high. It sounds like you measurements are close to what I had pre-suspension swap. My kit has adjustable ride hieght so I never had a height issue myself. I'm currently 26" front, 27" rear; that is fender to lip to ground.

I heard with poly you didn't have to wait until the suspension was loaded to tighten the A-arm bolts. Only with rubber, I thought. My VBP instructions never mentioned that either.

I wouldn't give up on poly yet. If you have a binding problem (sits too high) due to not enough grease (squeaking), you could just grease her up and problem solved, I hope.

 

Eric,
I have installed poly bushings in a number of vehicles and never had...the poly a-arm bushings squeek like hell... I have head poly bushings squeak, but never to an extreme. I did of course use poly-lube as you did. One thing I have experienced is extreme "squeaking" when I didn't get the top of the springs seated correctly in the upper spring pocket. The 460# springs are shorter and are easier to get to stay in the spring pocket as you are mounting them than the standard (but significantly longer) springs. The standard springs can be a bear to get to stay seated while you raise the a-arm to connect the spindle to the ball joint.

If the spring is not correctly seated in the upper spring pocket, it will go together (even the 460# springs), but the top (outboard side) of the spring will rub against the frame and then... squeek like hell! It is easy to tell if this is the case, because the front will be about 1 1/2" higher than they should be, and you can see the spring riding against the edge of the frame around the upper spring pocket. If you can slip your fingers between the outboard side of the spring and the frame they are probably correctly seated, if not, you need to check to see if they are seated correctly.

Grumpy 427... NAPA sells a product called SIL-GLYDE. It's a silicone based lubricant with lots of uses, but works particularly well at lubricating poly bushings. It's of course water proof, so it stays in place well and doesn't wash out as other lubricants can over time.

I've found most squeaking with poly bushings comes from the ploy bushings on sway bars. Whenever this happens (every couple of years or so) I just remove the mounts and re-lube the poly bushings and all is good once again.

Also, tightening the retainers on the bushings with the weight off the front end is only a no-no if you are using the rubber bushings and should not matter with poly. The rubber bushings have a knurling on the end of the metal inner sleeve that locks against the retainer when you tighten the retainers. As you lower the car and put weight on the front end, it twists the rubber between the inner and outer sleeve of the bushing. The rubber will resist the twisting and add some additional spring rate to the suspension. Poly bushings, especially when properly lubed, are designed to slip and are not locked between the inner and outer sleeve as the rubber ones are.

Good luck... GUSTO

 

Gordon, Greg, Gusto,
Thanks for the information. I'll look at the springs again as you described, and for sh@ts and giggles, loosen up the bolts on the ground. If that doesn't work, I'll be getting out the cutting wheel! Thanks again for the help,
Eric

 

Good point above. If the spring(s) is out-of-pocket, it could be rubbing on the frame causing the squeeking noise.

Also, forget about loosening and tightening the cross shaft bolts. Once you drive her and take a few dips, the car will settle into it's ride height. The service manuals advise torquing at ride height to ensure the shoulders on the fresh rubber bushings aren't over-twisted.

Loosening and retightening the bolts won't change anything.