OK, so I've looked at the ZZ502, the ZZ502 with top end kit, have almost ordered a Shafiroff 427, looked at the ZZ383, the ZZ454, and gosh nows what else.

I'm kinda choking on the $$$ for the Schafiroff 427, CAN I afford it?
Well, honestly yes, BUT that's a ton of change for just the motor. I can do a 200r4 and a SB for 2k less than just the shaf 427.....

SO what I'm asking is for some advice from folks that have run various combos. I want a very stout but very drivable motor.

I need to be over 400 horse and over 400 ft lbs, beyond that I'm open to anything. It MUST hold vacuum and be fine on everyday premium fuels.

Cost is secondary, as is fuel mileage, an easy swap is a plus, but I'm not opposed to putting a big block back on the table with stock rockers to eliminate the PB booster issues.

I want to be able to drive this car every day with out pulling my hair out but I want it FAST too, in short, I want it all.....

A little help?

 

A 383 will get you that power (440hp/tq), and so will some 350's out there. But if your even considering a 502...forget the 383/454. Deep down you know, if you buy that 350,427, or 454, your going to wish you would of just bought the 502.

Go big or go home... just kidding. But make sure its really what you want, because you don't want to buy another one later.


Sean

 

It's only money...

ZZ383?

 

Part of where I stick on the BB is I don't want the tall covers, I think the low covers look badd azzz and that's how a BB should look. Sooo I don't want to run a radical enough engine to need roller rocker and hence tall covers. Also short covers will clear my PB booster and I won't have to do a hydra boost for the brakes until i want to, I don't want to HAVE to just to get the motor in. The BB cool factor is still a big attraction.

I'm thinking about the ZZ454 again with a ZZ502 cam for right at 500horse and it should idle all friggin day.......sound choppy enough to get noticed .....but not act like a house cat on meth.

Also what about Patriot Performance?? I have looked at their engines no less than 5 times and they almost seem too cheap to be true, I know you're getting a cast crank vs forged, but I don't plan on sprayin' this motor anyway...so?? Patriot Performance?? Anyone??

 

I replaced the original L36 427 in my '68 with a 1/4" stroker 489 with Brodix Race Rite oval port heads, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap inlet, Proform 950 DP carb, Howard Hydraulic flat tappet 236/240 .550 lift cam. This dyno'd 528 hp @ 5850 rpm and 565 ft/lb torque @ 3850 rpm. I am using a Muncie 4 speed, 3.08 rear end and 27" tall tyres. I don't have power brakes so can't comment too much on vacumn except to say that headlights are a little slow to come-up at idle (but nothing serious) power band starts at 1200 rpm and will wind-up to 6000 rpm - and is really quite driveable (I live in a London UK suburb so this is important!) would this suit you? PS I am having the first problems with the extra power and torque - the stock engine mounts have lasted less than 200 miles!

 

Here's my 355 that just came in and it was dynoed at 451hp and 440 ft/lbs of torque and the torque ran pretty consitently over 400 from 2800 to 5400rpm.. It also has the large Comp Cams Thumper cam in it, which was designed to maintain better vacuum at idle yet sound like a drag car.. I have about $3500 into the long block..

 

I've thought about those thumper cams myself...383 short block, good aluminum heads, thumper cam

I'm worried about getting the wrong combo together though, there are SOOO many friggin components out there these days it's hard to know your getting compatible parts from a power band perspective....

 

That's what great about BB's. 500 driveable ponies is child's pay. A SB, even a 383 or 406, has to RPM a bit to reach 450.

Valve covers. On a 69 Camaro, I'm running Comp's Magnun roller rockers under stock BB valve covers with the extra thick gasket. No clearance problems.

 

I know in my heart I want the BB, period. With the black crinkle finish with red letters valve covers and air cleaner.

That's good word on the roller rockers, didn't think about just going with a thick gasket, thanks

 

The ZZ502 has everthing you want right out of the box. Plus, it has all the right parts if you want more. The valve covers will clear. The 572 is the tall deck, not the 502 (same outside dimentions as a 454).

Trust me, there is nothing like feeling of a torque monster!

 

I've got a crate LS-7 BB. Stock rockers/covers, and seems to have plenty of HP/TQ. I'm rounding up parts for a 496- it'll have stock height covers with thick gaskets if I need them. If I was going to go to Shafiroff or someone like that, I'd spend the cash to get the biggest cubic inch number I could find- the HP/TQ numbers will take care of themselves.

 

I don't know how comfortable I am with the siamesed jackets/bores of the 502, that's part of what I like about the 454 over the 502.

BUT... 50 cubic inches IS 50 cubic inches.

 

What exactly are you worried about?

 

haha, we all try and rationalize a high HP small block (383 or 400+) but deep down, its the sex appeal of the 454 and 502 that'll get you.

I say ZZ454 with 502 cam. Great price, great performance, and lots of potential to upgrade.

 

not only is it cast vs forged but they also use hydraulic flat tappet camshafts. All the GMPP ZZ series engines use hydraulic roller camshafts so it's worth the peice of mind not to worry about wiping a lobe with too much lift and special oils.

 

I'll second that!

 

Thin jackets and siamesed bores just bug me, makes me feel like the cylinder wall is out of round, or will get that way...probably more paranoia than anything else

And that's just it, I keep rationalizing a SB, but I really want a BB and have known it all along, there's not THAT much to do to swap it in.

Yeah, I am very set on a hydraulic roller cam, that is not an option now that I think about it.

Forged is always worth the coin. I wish my 5.7 hemi had a forged bottom end, ( IF the factory short block lets go, it WILL get one) as it is I am rev limiting it to 6250 on a top end that will spin 7500 without sweating

 

Check this out... All you need is a ZZ454, a Performer RPM Air Gap, a 750CFM Speed Demon and "Wa Laa".... 500+ HP and 540FT-LBs.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/1...mbo/index.html

Definitely go with a BB, I was in your shoes come Jan. as my L82 took a dump. I didn't want to spend the money on stroking it to a 396 stroker because I knew every time I opened the hood, it would look like a stock L82. The wow factor to me is in the BB's, LS engines and stroked small blocks are cool, but they cant beat the look or performace of a BB. I don't mean to open a can of worms but take a look at a stock L88 and the '09 ZR1's. I've see L88's bring better quarter mile slips than what these new ZR1's are bringing in... So, you make the call.

 

Yep, I have finally made a solid decision and am sticking to it.

I've been talking to Scroggin Dickey about a zz454/zz502 hybrid and the final combo is gonna come down to the following

*chorus of angels singing in unison*

zz454 short block with zz502 cam installed and degreed by Scroggin D

zz502 heads with 2.25 intake valves vs the 2.18 valves that the zz454 heads have
all else is the same between the two heads so why not get a bit bigger intake valve for the same money?

Edelbrock RPM air gap intake and a 750 Holley/ Demon/ Quickfuel or other carb I decide I like and has a linkage compatible with a 700r4 TV cable

HEI ignition if it'll clear the firewall, if not, an MSD set up with a 6AL box

Other than having Scroggin D install and degree the cam, I'll handle all assembly chores myself saving some bucks there, and having some hands on fun at the same time

This should easily produce 525+ HP and 550+ ft lbs with a forged bottom end and room to grow,
while ringing in at a solid 1k dollars less than the zz502 kit.

I'm willing to loose the 50 cubes to save the 1k bucks and also not have the siamesed bores of the 502.
It may not mean a thing but I just don't like siamesed bores from a strength or cooling standpoint.
If I want to boost or spray it later, the motor will more than be up for the task.

This should be a very streetable package with freight train torque that hits right in the bullseye of my budget and leaves room for a 700r4 trans, all for a bit less than the Shafiroff 427 would cost for just the motor AND have that big block killer torque and eye appeal under the hood. And I won't have my heart sink every time I open the hood.

*angels sing even louder*

Thanks all you guys for putting up with my endless flip/flopping on this deal but I can finally sleep. If you just think and research and ask around enough, you CAN have your cake and eat it too!