Help With Lifter Replacement
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 703
Likes: 2
Help With Lifter Replacement
In regards to a previous thread about blowing out my rear intake gasket on my new motor, and tearing it apart, I discovered a small tin ring on one of the new Comp Cam 858-1 lifters (Pro Magnum Hydraulic Lifters) had come lose so I have to replace it.. I do have a few questions though.
1. When installing my new intake gasket, should I eliminate the front and rear gasket and instead run a bead of "Ultra Black Hi-Temp Permatex" instead (PX #82180)?
2. When replacing just one lifter do I have to use cam break-in lube again?
3. How do I properly adjust it? For reference, its cyl #2
I have full roller rockers with locknuts.. I want to make the adjustment after I get it back together because I marked the distributor location and don't want to rotate the motor until my timing is set again. When I removed the locknuts on the rockers, they were so tight I bent my Allen wrench. Is it normal to have them that tight?
Thanks for the help!
1. When installing my new intake gasket, should I eliminate the front and rear gasket and instead run a bead of "Ultra Black Hi-Temp Permatex" instead (PX #82180)?
2. When replacing just one lifter do I have to use cam break-in lube again?
3. How do I properly adjust it? For reference, its cyl #2
I have full roller rockers with locknuts.. I want to make the adjustment after I get it back together because I marked the distributor location and don't want to rotate the motor until my timing is set again. When I removed the locknuts on the rockers, they were so tight I bent my Allen wrench. Is it normal to have them that tight?
Thanks for the help!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
Likes: 433
From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
This is going to get difficult. Where exactly did that "tin ring" come from on the lifter?
I'm asking because it's going to be a crapshoot installing a NEW lifter on a used cam. When a new cam and lifter runs, it develops a specific wear pattern that is unique to each lifter/lobe. Changing 1 lifter you run a risk of wiping that lobe off the cam. It can be done with success (I've done it!) but there's still a risk.
I'd run the bead of RTV and get rid of the rubber end seals. Wipe everything down with alcohol~ any trace of oil on the surfaces you want to seal the RTV will not stick.
Put it all back together, drop the dizzy back in, and then rotate the engine to adjust the rocker. The set screws need to be tight enough to lock the nuts, that's all. No need for them to be cranked down so much they bend an allen wrench.
I'm asking because it's going to be a crapshoot installing a NEW lifter on a used cam. When a new cam and lifter runs, it develops a specific wear pattern that is unique to each lifter/lobe. Changing 1 lifter you run a risk of wiping that lobe off the cam. It can be done with success (I've done it!) but there's still a risk.
I'd run the bead of RTV and get rid of the rubber end seals. Wipe everything down with alcohol~ any trace of oil on the surfaces you want to seal the RTV will not stick.
Put it all back together, drop the dizzy back in, and then rotate the engine to adjust the rocker. The set screws need to be tight enough to lock the nuts, that's all. No need for them to be cranked down so much they bend an allen wrench.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 703
Likes: 2
This is going to get difficult. Where exactly did that "tin ring" come from on the lifter?
I'm asking because it's going to be a crapshoot installing a NEW lifter on a used cam. When a new cam and lifter runs, it develops a specific wear pattern that is unique to each lifter/lobe. Changing 1 lifter you run a risk of wiping that lobe off the cam. It can be done with success (I've done it!) but there's still a risk.
I'd run the bead of RTV and get rid of the rubber end seals. Wipe everything down with alcohol~ any trace of oil on the surfaces you want to seal the RTV will not stick.
Put it all back together, drop the dizzy back in, and then rotate the engine to adjust the rocker. The set screws need to be tight enough to lock the nuts, that's all. No need for them to be cranked down so much they bend an allen wrench.
I'm asking because it's going to be a crapshoot installing a NEW lifter on a used cam. When a new cam and lifter runs, it develops a specific wear pattern that is unique to each lifter/lobe. Changing 1 lifter you run a risk of wiping that lobe off the cam. It can be done with success (I've done it!) but there's still a risk.
I'd run the bead of RTV and get rid of the rubber end seals. Wipe everything down with alcohol~ any trace of oil on the surfaces you want to seal the RTV will not stick.
Put it all back together, drop the dizzy back in, and then rotate the engine to adjust the rocker. The set screws need to be tight enough to lock the nuts, that's all. No need for them to be cranked down so much they bend an allen wrench.
Should I apply some cam lube on the bottom of that lifter? The tin ring sits near the top of the lifter and its basically just pressed in and sits about 3/16" down inside. I havent got a clue as to what it does. The only thing I can think of is that it diverts oil away from the inside edges. I think there may have been a problem with that lifter to begin with becuase I noticed the set-screw on the locknut was down about 1/8" farther than all the others..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
Likes: 433
From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Now I'm curious- can you take a picture? I'm wondering if the tin ring maybe the retainer for the plunger in the lifter. If that's the case, snap it back in and use the lifter.
Absopositivly without fail, use lube on the lifter.
If the set screw was farther down in the nut, that would tell me the nut was not on as far as the rest of them. Time to look for why.
Absopositivly without fail, use lube on the lifter.
If the set screw was farther down in the nut, that would tell me the nut was not on as far as the rest of them. Time to look for why.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 703
Likes: 2
Now I'm curious- can you take a picture? I'm wondering if the tin ring maybe the retainer for the plunger in the lifter. If that's the case, snap it back in and use the lifter.
Absopositivly without fail, use lube on the lifter.
If the set screw was farther down in the nut, that would tell me the nut was not on as far as the rest of them. Time to look for why.
Absopositivly without fail, use lube on the lifter.
If the set screw was farther down in the nut, that would tell me the nut was not on as far as the rest of them. Time to look for why.
Below is a picture of the lifter and retaining ring. Even though you cant see it in the photo, the ring is to deformed to go back in..
If the locknut sits higher, then the set screw will apear as though it sits lower in the locknut.. If the locknut is sitting higher, that means my rocker is sitting higher, which can only mean a taller valve stem or pushrod that is sitting higher, which has to be raletd to the lifter because I measured the pushrod and its the same length... I'm going to say its on the lifter end.. I wont know if a new lifter will even things out until I actually install a new one..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
Likes: 433
From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
I agree, that ring is what keeps the plunger in the lifter. GM lifters used a wire retainer.
And I agree with you on the locknut too. Pushrod length is the same, look at the rocker studs, rockers, and all that stuff. Maybe that lifter was mis assembled at the factory and it took a while for it to come apart. Usual cause of the GM lifters popping the wire retainer out was high RPM.
Lube the new lifter with some good cam lube and give it a shot.
And I agree with you on the locknut too. Pushrod length is the same, look at the rocker studs, rockers, and all that stuff. Maybe that lifter was mis assembled at the factory and it took a while for it to come apart. Usual cause of the GM lifters popping the wire retainer out was high RPM.
Lube the new lifter with some good cam lube and give it a shot.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
Likes: 7
From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Tim, isn't he missing the spring clip also?
As far as gasket sealer, I use the Permatex in the cheese wiz can. Lay the manifold on the motor with the gaskets, measure the gap at the front and back, then remove and add about double the amount of sealer. Install manifold, tighten bolts, and let set overnight before touching it. Works every time for me.
As far as gasket sealer, I use the Permatex in the cheese wiz can. Lay the manifold on the motor with the gaskets, measure the gap at the front and back, then remove and add about double the amount of sealer. Install manifold, tighten bolts, and let set overnight before touching it. Works every time for me.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
Likes: 43
From: San Antonio TX
The c-clip spring or the stamped metal retainer do the same thing, though the spring clip does it better. One or the other. And you can put new lifters on an old cam. Otherwise there would be no path to replacing a bad (not flat, but defective) lifter as a repair except by replacing the whole valvetrain since everything has some relationship to their associated parts. In nearly all instances, that relationship isn't as dire as some make it seem.
Some of us who were building engines long before the age before the Internet -where everyone is now an expert on everything- can tell you some stories that would curdle your milk these days. Make you faint dead away, yep.
Some of us who were building engines long before the age before the Internet -where everyone is now an expert on everything- can tell you some stories that would curdle your milk these days. Make you faint dead away, yep.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,123
Likes: 433
From: Gladstone MO
C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Gerry, you're right about installing one lifter on an old (read used) cam. I've done it more times than I can count. But that was a long time before the oil was "cleaned up". I'd think twice about doing it today and expecting the results we got 20-30 years ago. Like the old adage- Somedays peanuts, somedays shells.
Buddy, that Permatex in the Cheese-Whiz can is good stuff- but you still gotta' get all the oil off or it won't stick.
Buddy, that Permatex in the Cheese-Whiz can is good stuff- but you still gotta' get all the oil off or it won't stick.
