Cooling my solid roller 496
06-10-2009, 11:51 AM
#21
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19
Do you have any suggestions on were to look other than were I have already looked.
Neal
06-10-2009, 12:31 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
If they are both close to the same size, I wouldn't think that switching is going to make much difference.
06-10-2009, 12:50 PM
#23
Drifting
How old is your existing radiator?
Is there any chance that it could be full of scale in the tubes that is hurting heat transfer?
If the radiator is clean, it seem like it has to be an airflow issue.
Is there any chance that it could be full of scale in the tubes that is hurting heat transfer?
If the radiator is clean, it seem like it has to be an airflow issue.
06-10-2009, 01:13 PM
#24
Team Owner
Dump that filler neck on the thermostat
If you still have issues after the above changes and the new package is installed, I would go back to the standard water pump. By making this one change you'll be able to see if the high flow pump alone was helping or hurting. Dozens of people have told me they made their car run hotter because the flow was too much for the radiator.
If you still have issues after the above changes and the new package is installed, I would go back to the standard water pump. By making this one change you'll be able to see if the high flow pump alone was helping or hurting. Dozens of people have told me they made their car run hotter because the flow was too much for the radiator.
The filler neck on the thermostat is one of the best things you can do. I also have the Stew stage III and a Weiand Team G on my other motor.If the radiator does not have enough volume in the cross flow tubes I could see pressure building on top.
My question is: Are you running any kind of restrictor in the filler neck?
I have used the 7/8th inch washer and the 190 degree high flow thermistats with a couple holes drilled in them to great success.
I have trouble getting heat in my motor even on 90 degree days. Because i also have the manifold rear cooling lines coming in after my thermostat. I takes a long time of drive to even get 190. But under racing conditions for a 20-30 minute sprint road race I often see 220 and during the cool down it's right back to sub 190.
06-10-2009, 02:19 PM
#25
Race Director
1. The stage 3 pumps are not designed for that low an rpm.
2. Try moving the pushers and the oil cooler out of the way to test, even if you just tie wire them somewhere temporarily.
3. Are you using the pump bypass (front of manifold to top of waterpump, nut sure if the stage 3 pumps even have that port)
4. What are the dimensions of the present rad and core thickness.
5. How old is the present rad.
6. When idling, break the core into different quadrants and note the readings from the ir gun.
There is a good chance that this is happening at least with the pump, not saying there might not be radiator or air flow issues.
Around town you are running pretty cool for most BB.
Even though the Stage 3 pump is designed for high rpm, at city driving rpms and when you are checking it at idle etc, it shows good flow. It doesn't matter much because you are not producing a lot of heat.
At highway speeds with increased rpm , the impeller being designed for much higher rpm and a more flow friendly system is really cavitating and thus reducing your flow and cooling. It's a great pump, but not for your purpose. I normally use Stage 2 pumps and they almost work too well.
I would contact Stewart and ask about the cavitation.
2. Try moving the pushers and the oil cooler out of the way to test, even if you just tie wire them somewhere temporarily.
3. Are you using the pump bypass (front of manifold to top of waterpump, nut sure if the stage 3 pumps even have that port)
4. What are the dimensions of the present rad and core thickness.
5. How old is the present rad.
6. When idling, break the core into different quadrants and note the readings from the ir gun.
There is a good chance that this is happening at least with the pump, not saying there might not be radiator or air flow issues.
Around town you are running pretty cool for most BB.
Even though the Stage 3 pump is designed for high rpm, at city driving rpms and when you are checking it at idle etc, it shows good flow. It doesn't matter much because you are not producing a lot of heat.
At highway speeds with increased rpm , the impeller being designed for much higher rpm and a more flow friendly system is really cavitating and thus reducing your flow and cooling. It's a great pump, but not for your purpose. I normally use Stage 2 pumps and they almost work too well.
I would contact Stewart and ask about the cavitation.
06-10-2009, 05:26 PM
#26
Team Owner
1. The stage 3 pumps are not designed for that low an rpm.
2. Try moving the pushers and the oil cooler out of the way to test, even if you just tie wire them somewhere temporarily.
3. Are you using the pump bypass (front of manifold to top of waterpump, nut sure if the stage 3 pumps even have that port)
4. What are the dimensions of the present rad and core thickness.
5. How old is the present rad.
6. When idling, break the core into different quadrants and note the readings from the ir gun.
There is a good chance that this is happening at least with the pump, not saying there might not be radiator or air flow issues.
Around town you are running pretty cool for most BB.
Even though the Stage 3 pump is designed for high rpm, at city driving rpms and when you are checking it at idle etc, it shows good flow. It doesn't matter much because you are not producing a lot of heat.
At highway speeds with increased rpm , the impeller being designed for much higher rpm and a more flow friendly system is really cavitating and thus reducing your flow and cooling. It's a great pump, but not for your purpose. I normally use Stage 2 pumps and they almost work too well.
I would contact Stewart and ask about the cavitation.
2. Try moving the pushers and the oil cooler out of the way to test, even if you just tie wire them somewhere temporarily.
3. Are you using the pump bypass (front of manifold to top of waterpump, nut sure if the stage 3 pumps even have that port)
4. What are the dimensions of the present rad and core thickness.
5. How old is the present rad.
6. When idling, break the core into different quadrants and note the readings from the ir gun.
There is a good chance that this is happening at least with the pump, not saying there might not be radiator or air flow issues.
Around town you are running pretty cool for most BB.
Even though the Stage 3 pump is designed for high rpm, at city driving rpms and when you are checking it at idle etc, it shows good flow. It doesn't matter much because you are not producing a lot of heat.
At highway speeds with increased rpm , the impeller being designed for much higher rpm and a more flow friendly system is really cavitating and thus reducing your flow and cooling. It's a great pump, but not for your purpose. I normally use Stage 2 pumps and they almost work too well.
I would contact Stewart and ask about the cavitation.
06-10-2009, 07:11 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
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Neal
06-10-2009, 07:14 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19
The filler neck on the thermostat is one of the best things you can do. I also have the Stew stage III and a Weiand Team G on my other motor.If the radiator does not have enough volume in the cross flow tubes I could see pressure building on top.
My question is: Are you running any kind of restrictor in the filler neck?
I have used the 7/8th inch washer and the 190 degree high flow thermistats with a couple holes drilled in them to great success.
I have trouble getting heat in my motor even on 90 degree days. Because i also have the manifold rear cooling lines coming in after my thermostat. I takes a long time of drive to even get 190. But under racing conditions for a 20-30 minute sprint road race I often see 220 and during the cool down it's right back to sub 190.
I am not running any restrictor, I have a Stewart 180* high flow stat in it right now.
Neal
06-10-2009, 07:20 PM
#29
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I bought a Billet Specialties thermostat housing for the ZZ4 in my 68. I think it's the same housing that would be sold for BB application. I was surprised as to how restricted it was on the inside. The inlet from the radiator was 45 degrees to the thermostate housing body. It was extremely restricted. I used a grinder to greatly enlarge the orfice between the inlet tube and the housing...probably doubled the opening.
I don't know what kind of a thermstat housing you're using. I just thought I'd mention this. I remember thinking that a lot of people could put all new stuff on their engine (radiator, hoses, pump) then have a heating problem and would perhaps never guess it was a restricted thermo housing.
Also, I ordered a Edelbrock aluminum water pump from a parts house. It came packed in plastic peanuts. Pastic peanuts worked their way into the water pump cavity. I thought I removed them all. Then I started to think, what if I didn't and one got into the cylinder head and blocked an internal passage way? I disassembled the water pump and sure enough there was a least one in there.
So for me, I encounted two obscure conditions that could have caused a heating problem if not discovered.
I don't know what kind of a thermstat housing you're using. I just thought I'd mention this. I remember thinking that a lot of people could put all new stuff on their engine (radiator, hoses, pump) then have a heating problem and would perhaps never guess it was a restricted thermo housing.
Also, I ordered a Edelbrock aluminum water pump from a parts house. It came packed in plastic peanuts. Pastic peanuts worked their way into the water pump cavity. I thought I removed them all. Then I started to think, what if I didn't and one got into the cylinder head and blocked an internal passage way? I disassembled the water pump and sure enough there was a least one in there.
So for me, I encounted two obscure conditions that could have caused a heating problem if not discovered.
Last edited by 68/70Vette; 06-10-2009 at 07:26 PM.
06-10-2009, 07:37 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19
1. The stage 3 pumps are not designed for that low an rpm.
2. Try moving the pushers and the oil cooler out of the way to test, even if you just tie wire them somewhere temporarily.
3. Are you using the pump bypass (front of manifold to top of waterpump, nut sure if the stage 3 pumps even have that port)
4. What are the dimensions of the present rad and core thickness.
5. How old is the present rad.
6. When idling, break the core into different quadrants and note the readings from the ir gun.
There is a good chance that this is happening at least with the pump, not saying there might not be radiator or air flow issues.
Around town you are running pretty cool for most BB.
Even though the Stage 3 pump is designed for high rpm, at city driving rpms and when you are checking it at idle etc, it shows good flow. It doesn't matter much because you are not producing a lot of heat.
At highway speeds with increased rpm , the impeller being designed for much higher rpm and a more flow friendly system is really cavitating and thus reducing your flow and cooling. It's a great pump, but not for your purpose. I normally use Stage 2 pumps and they almost work too well.
I would contact Stewart and ask about the cavitation.
2. Try moving the pushers and the oil cooler out of the way to test, even if you just tie wire them somewhere temporarily.
3. Are you using the pump bypass (front of manifold to top of waterpump, nut sure if the stage 3 pumps even have that port)
4. What are the dimensions of the present rad and core thickness.
5. How old is the present rad.
6. When idling, break the core into different quadrants and note the readings from the ir gun.
There is a good chance that this is happening at least with the pump, not saying there might not be radiator or air flow issues.
Around town you are running pretty cool for most BB.
Even though the Stage 3 pump is designed for high rpm, at city driving rpms and when you are checking it at idle etc, it shows good flow. It doesn't matter much because you are not producing a lot of heat.
At highway speeds with increased rpm , the impeller being designed for much higher rpm and a more flow friendly system is really cavitating and thus reducing your flow and cooling. It's a great pump, but not for your purpose. I normally use Stage 2 pumps and they almost work too well.
I would contact Stewart and ask about the cavitation.
I can run without the pusher fans and give that a try again. The oil cooler is easy to pull forward and away form the radiator so that isn't an issue either.
I am running the bypass hose, when I tried to run without it the temps would swing all over the place. One minute it would be 200* the next minute it would be 230*.
The core size is 26.5" X 17.5" X 2.25"
I can try and get the core temps in different areas and see what I come up with.
I contacted Jack (Stewart) by e-mail a few weeks ago to ask him about a T-stat issue. He indicated to remove it and see what the temps would do. I have not removed the T-stat to see the effects. I had done this in the past and it didn't change anything but I am willing to try anything that may help.
I have the high flow pump form Zoops that came with my serp system that I can try. I took it off to install the Stewart pump because I was having issues back then.
I'll try Stewart again and talk to them about cavitaion and pump rpms on the stage III.
Neal
06-10-2009, 07:41 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19
I bought a Billet Specialties thermostat housing for the ZZ4 in my 68. I think it's the same housing that would be sold for BB application. I was surprised as to how restricted it was on the inside. The inlet from the radiator was 45 degrees to the thermostate housing body. It was extremely restricted. I used a grinder to greatly enlarge the orfice between the inlet tube and the housing...probably doubled the opening.
I don't know what kind of a thermstat housing you're using. I just thought I'd mention this. I remember thinking that a lot of people could put all new stuff on their engine (radiator, hoses, pump) then have a heating problem and would perhaps never guess it was a restricted thermo housing.
Also, I ordered a Edelbrock aluminum water pump from a parts house. It came packed in plastic peanuts. Pastic peanuts worked their way into the water pump cavity. I thought I removed them all. Then I started to think, what if I didn't and one got into the cylinder head and blocked an internal passage way? I disassembled the water pump and sure enough there was a least one in there.
So for me, I encounted two obscure conditions that could have caused a heating problem if not discovered.
I don't know what kind of a thermstat housing you're using. I just thought I'd mention this. I remember thinking that a lot of people could put all new stuff on their engine (radiator, hoses, pump) then have a heating problem and would perhaps never guess it was a restricted thermo housing.
Also, I ordered a Edelbrock aluminum water pump from a parts house. It came packed in plastic peanuts. Pastic peanuts worked their way into the water pump cavity. I thought I removed them all. Then I started to think, what if I didn't and one got into the cylinder head and blocked an internal passage way? I disassembled the water pump and sure enough there was a least one in there.
So for me, I encounted two obscure conditions that could have caused a heating problem if not discovered.
The pump came in a box wrapped in plastic if I remember right, don't remember any loose packing in the box. I still have the box that I can check.
Thanks for the ideas
Neal
06-10-2009, 09:24 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
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After looking up the part number on the Stewart site the pump I have is a stage IV. In the desctiption it is recomended for any application.
Neal
Neal
06-10-2009, 10:00 PM
#33
Le Mans Master
It is quite possible that the Stewart pump is just pushing the water through the radiator too fast so that there isn't sufficient time for heat dissapation to occur. By restricting the waterflow a bit you may be able to get the temps under some type of control without spending more money.
The puller fan configuration is almost always more efficient and better than pusher fan setups. Also the pusher will get in the way of airflow at highways speeds whereas the puller is behind the airflow. You create a rather large dead spot around the fan motor areas.
The puller fan configuration is almost always more efficient and better than pusher fan setups. Also the pusher will get in the way of airflow at highways speeds whereas the puller is behind the airflow. You create a rather large dead spot around the fan motor areas.
06-10-2009, 10:38 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
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It is quite possible that the Stewart pump is just pushing the water through the radiator too fast so that there isn't sufficient time for heat dissapation to occur. By restricting the waterflow a bit you may be able to get the temps under some type of control without spending more money.
The puller fan configuration is almost always more efficient and better than pusher fan setups. Also the pusher will get in the way of airflow at highways speeds whereas the puller is behind the airflow. You create a rather large dead spot around the fan motor areas.
The puller fan configuration is almost always more efficient and better than pusher fan setups. Also the pusher will get in the way of airflow at highways speeds whereas the puller is behind the airflow. You create a rather large dead spot around the fan motor areas.
LOL!!
06-10-2009, 10:49 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
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It is quite possible that the Stewart pump is just pushing the water through the radiator too fast so that there isn't sufficient time for heat dissapation to occur. By restricting the waterflow a bit you may be able to get the temps under some type of control without spending more money.
The puller fan configuration is almost always more efficient and better than pusher fan setups. Also the pusher will get in the way of airflow at highways speeds whereas the puller is behind the airflow. You create a rather large dead spot around the fan motor areas.
The puller fan configuration is almost always more efficient and better than pusher fan setups. Also the pusher will get in the way of airflow at highways speeds whereas the puller is behind the airflow. You create a rather large dead spot around the fan motor areas.
I think for now I may try some restrictor plates in place of the T-stat to see if water flow can be tuned to some point that may help cooling.
Neal
06-11-2009, 08:27 AM
#36
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Many of the race pumps are designed to be underdriven and run at 8000 rpm engine speeds. I just have a basic Team G aluminum one on mine.
JIM
JIM
06-11-2009, 08:49 AM
#37
Team Owner
I also have the BeCool radiator listed for use to 1000 hp and I use twin Spal fans. They are very high CFM fans. Pullers and unless I'm racing I don't even turn on the second one.
06-11-2009, 06:26 PM
#38
Melting Slicks
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If You have the stage IV It won't work on the street. It doesn't really flow any water below 4000 rpm It is intended to run from 4500 - 8000 rpm
I also have the BeCool radiator listed for use to 1000 hp and I use twin Spal fans. They are very high CFM fans. Pullers and unless I'm racing I don't even turn on the second one.
I also have the BeCool radiator listed for use to 1000 hp and I use twin Spal fans. They are very high CFM fans. Pullers and unless I'm racing I don't even turn on the second one.
prior to the stage IV I ran a Zoops high flow that came with the serp set-up, when I changed to the stage IV it helped a little.
Neal
06-12-2009, 07:38 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
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Got the Dewitt’s radiator today, I was in industrial fabrication for quite a few years handled allot of aluminum and stainless and I have to say the quality of the radiator is very good. Everything arrived as stated and was packaged very well.
I have one question though the radiator inlet is reduced down, the inlet fitting looks that it can be cut to allow for a larger inlet. Tom if you are still checking in on this thread do you have any guidance on this. I would like to get the full flow if possible.
Neal
I have one question though the radiator inlet is reduced down, the inlet fitting looks that it can be cut to allow for a larger inlet. Tom if you are still checking in on this thread do you have any guidance on this. I would like to get the full flow if possible.
Neal
06-12-2009, 07:42 PM
#40
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