oil question
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
whoah is the guy that asks about oil,
( i asked on a few days ago and still havent got an answer)
however, you will see a lot of people saying that you cant use synthetic in an old engine because it will cause it to leak.
you will then see other people say that its ok no problem.
then there is the middle ground that says that if your engine has been taken care of and the seals arent bad then it will be fine.
main thing to remember though is that whether it is dino or synth it must be high in zddp if you are running a flat tappet cam.
my question was since i am switching to a roller cam do i still need the high zddp oil
( i asked on a few days ago and still havent got an answer)
however, you will see a lot of people saying that you cant use synthetic in an old engine because it will cause it to leak.
you will then see other people say that its ok no problem.
then there is the middle ground that says that if your engine has been taken care of and the seals arent bad then it will be fine.
main thing to remember though is that whether it is dino or synth it must be high in zddp if you are running a flat tappet cam.
my question was since i am switching to a roller cam do i still need the high zddp oil
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 12
From: SoCal
ZDDP is for flat tappet cams.And, an alternative to 100% synthetic is a synthetic blend (e.g., Castrol Syntec Blend) - that's what I use in my 383 and my rebuilt 350.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 923
Likes: 37
From: Green Bay Wisconsin
Hello,
No point in running synthetic engine oil in a carbureted engine.
One of the main reasons for 3000 mile oil changes is that the car manufacturers understood that carburetors would at times dump too much gas in the engine and that some of the gas would contaminate the oil. An oil change would wash out most of the impurities that the oil picked up.
I suppose if you ran the synthetic oil in a rebuilt engine and changed it every 3,000 miles you might see some advantages.
Don't run synthetic oil in an old engine, you will see more leaks.
Douglas in Green Bay
No point in running synthetic engine oil in a carbureted engine.
One of the main reasons for 3000 mile oil changes is that the car manufacturers understood that carburetors would at times dump too much gas in the engine and that some of the gas would contaminate the oil. An oil change would wash out most of the impurities that the oil picked up.
I suppose if you ran the synthetic oil in a rebuilt engine and changed it every 3,000 miles you might see some advantages.
Don't run synthetic oil in an old engine, you will see more leaks.
Douglas in Green Bay
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 840
Likes: 4
From: Syracuse IN
I run 15w40 synthetic in all of my push rod engins, from 1968 427 Ford, to 2009 6.0 Chevy. We don't see any oil leaks. I have 265,000 miles on my 96 454 Suburban never been taken apart. I did change the valve cover gaskets at 150,000 just to check the valve train, no problems so I replaced the rubber gasket and reinstalled the covers. Al
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
i told you.
from what i have read, the detergeants in the synth oil will clean out the gunk that is blocking holes in the seals. when the gunk is gone, it will leak.
if your engine is in good shape it wont leak. granted me saying it wont carrys as much weight as the quote i posted saying it will.
do a lot of research and do it on other websites as well.
some reading
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/re...s/synthoil.htm
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/info/seals.shtml
http://synthetic-motor-oil-air-filte...thetic-oil.htm
http://www.texlube.com/oilmyths.htm
Last edited by baxsom; Jul 18, 2009 at 04:44 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
i am just always curious as to whether or not these facts are backed by scientifly proven data or just the "what my mechanic said stuff"
or the "this is how we have done it for years stuff"
thats the main reason why i suggested to research all over the internet and not just this site. more of a variance of "opinions"
then just pick one in the middle and go with it.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 2
From: Lewisburg WV
thegazman
i like oil threads. i find the differing opinions interesting. it seems like every fact about oil that someone says is the gods honest truth has multiple others facts disproving it.
i am just always curious as to whether or not these facts are backed by scientifly proven data or just the "what my mechanic said stuff"
or the "this is how we have done it for years stuff"
thats the main reason why i suggested to research all over the internet and not just this site. more of a variance of "opinions"
then just pick one in the middle and go with it.
i am just always curious as to whether or not these facts are backed by scientifly proven data or just the "what my mechanic said stuff"
or the "this is how we have done it for years stuff"
thats the main reason why i suggested to research all over the internet and not just this site. more of a variance of "opinions"
then just pick one in the middle and go with it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 24
From: Boston MA
Synthetic Oil is not man made oil, its just as much dino, as non synthetic.
It is Synthesized oil. The additives that are found in non synthetic oil contain lots of molecules that do not do the oil any good. When these additives are synthesized there are lots more of the good ones, and lots less of the unessential ones. Hence they last longer which equates to longer oil life.
It is Synthesized oil. The additives that are found in non synthetic oil contain lots of molecules that do not do the oil any good. When these additives are synthesized there are lots more of the good ones, and lots less of the unessential ones. Hence they last longer which equates to longer oil life.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 105
From: State of Confusion!!!
2018 C2 of Year Winner
Synthetic Oil is not man made oil, its just as much dino, as non synthetic.
It is Synthesized oil. The additives that are found in non synthetic oil contain lots of molecules that do not do the oil any good. When these additives are synthesized there are lots more of the good ones, and lots less of the unessential ones. Hence they last longer which equates to longer oil life.
It is Synthesized oil. The additives that are found in non synthetic oil contain lots of molecules that do not do the oil any good. When these additives are synthesized there are lots more of the good ones, and lots less of the unessential ones. Hence they last longer which equates to longer oil life.
I don't think that is entirely correct. It depends on the base stock that they start out with. Most of your common over the counter brand names, that would apply, but your more "exotic" brands use a base stock that is not dino...I think?!?!?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,589
Likes: 5
From: Salisbury Maryland
I agree with this one. However, with the trans and rear, it's more beneficial using a Lucus synth. or something like that. Synthetic gear oils are far superior to petroleum based.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 914
Likes: 14
From: Aberdeen, Scotland
Mobil 1
I like syn oil. I run or ran it in everything and thought I was clever! Hey i work in the oil industry right ... ? My bikes love the stuff
Ok, I go with Mobil 1 in my old 'vette. Its an LS 5; with ~ say 42k on the clock at the time. I leave to go offshore (to drill for oil funnily enough) ... on my return I have a nice little outline of my oil pan on the garage floor. So, my oil pan gasket and timing chain cover needed to be ripped off and replaced. Now I run dino!
carbster09
Ok, I go with Mobil 1 in my old 'vette. Its an LS 5; with ~ say 42k on the clock at the time. I leave to go offshore (to drill for oil funnily enough) ... on my return I have a nice little outline of my oil pan on the garage floor. So, my oil pan gasket and timing chain cover needed to be ripped off and replaced. Now I run dino!
carbster09
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 24
From: Boston MA
Nope, the additives in the Oil are Synthesized, this is the most common misconception concerning Synthetic Oil...I sat through a two hour lecture give by the guy who invented Mobil One. While the Germans did use a crude form of Synthesized oil, it was not until the 60's when Mobil developed the current technique for use in heavy machinery in the arctic.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 235
From: Rockledge FL
I like syn oil. I run or ran it in everything and thought I was clever! Hey i work in the oil industry right ... ? My bikes love the stuff
Ok, I go with Mobil 1 in my old 'vette. Its an LS 5; with ~ say 42k on the clock at the time. I leave to go offshore (to drill for oil funnily enough) ... on my return I have a nice little outline of my oil pan on the garage floor. So, my oil pan gasket and timing chain cover needed to be ripped off and replaced. Now I run dino!
carbster09
Ok, I go with Mobil 1 in my old 'vette. Its an LS 5; with ~ say 42k on the clock at the time. I leave to go offshore (to drill for oil funnily enough) ... on my return I have a nice little outline of my oil pan on the garage floor. So, my oil pan gasket and timing chain cover needed to be ripped off and replaced. Now I run dino!
carbster09
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,364
Likes: 38
From: King George VA
I disagree. Group III basestock as defined by the API is a highly hydroprocessed mineral oil (dino oil) that can be labeled as "synthetic". These synthetics are mineral oils and most synthetics on the market use a Group III basestock.
But, the same doesn't apply to Group IV and V basestock.
Group IV basestock, which is what AMSOIL uses in the majority of its fluids, are PAO or Polymerized alpha olefin: Polyalphaolefin, Olefin Polymers, Olefin Oligomers- a synthetic hydrocarbon.
PAOs are commonly used to designate olefin oligomers and olefin polymers. The term PAO was first used by Gulf Oil Company (later acquired by Chevron), but it has now become an accepted generic term for hydrocarbons manufactured by the catalytic oligomerization of linear alpha olefins having six or more carbon atoms.
That doesn't sound like mineral oil to me, but I'm not a chemist.
Group V basestock is all others, which is primarily polyol esters. Red Line uses primarily polyol esters as their basestock.
Polyol esters are formed by reacting an alcohol with two or more reactive hydroxyl groups.
Again, doesn't sound like mineral oil to me, but again, I'm not a chemist.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 105
From: State of Confusion!!!
2018 C2 of Year Winner
I disagree. Group III basestock as defined by the API is a highly hydroprocessed mineral oil (dino oil) that can be labeled as "synthetic". These synthetics are mineral oils and most synthetics on the market use a Group III basestock.
But, the same doesn't apply to Group IV and V basestock.
Group IV basestock, which is what AMSOIL uses in the majority of its fluids, are PAO or Polymerized alpha olefin: Polyalphaolefin, Olefin Polymers, Olefin Oligomers- a synthetic hydrocarbon.
PAOs are commonly used to designate olefin oligomers and olefin polymers. The term PAO was first used by Gulf Oil Company (later acquired by Chevron), but it has now become an accepted generic term for hydrocarbons manufactured by the catalytic oligomerization of linear alpha olefins having six or more carbon atoms.
That doesn't sound like mineral oil to me, but I'm not a chemist.
Group V basestock is all others, which is primarily polyol esters. Red Line uses primarily polyol esters as their basestock.
Polyol esters are formed by reacting an alcohol with two or more reactive hydroxyl groups.
Again, doesn't sound like mineral oil to me, but again, I'm not a chemist.
But, the same doesn't apply to Group IV and V basestock.
Group IV basestock, which is what AMSOIL uses in the majority of its fluids, are PAO or Polymerized alpha olefin: Polyalphaolefin, Olefin Polymers, Olefin Oligomers- a synthetic hydrocarbon.
PAOs are commonly used to designate olefin oligomers and olefin polymers. The term PAO was first used by Gulf Oil Company (later acquired by Chevron), but it has now become an accepted generic term for hydrocarbons manufactured by the catalytic oligomerization of linear alpha olefins having six or more carbon atoms.
That doesn't sound like mineral oil to me, but I'm not a chemist.
Group V basestock is all others, which is primarily polyol esters. Red Line uses primarily polyol esters as their basestock.
Polyol esters are formed by reacting an alcohol with two or more reactive hydroxyl groups.
Again, doesn't sound like mineral oil to me, but again, I'm not a chemist.
That is what I thought I read somewhere, but that really clears things up!!!
