Breeding the blakes...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,669
Likes: 3
From: Kingston Ontario
The master does not sit level in the car and air in the actuation portion of the master cylinder gets trapped. The master has to be removed and put on a bench in the horizontal position and bled. I have mounted the master slightly nose up and then nose down as I bled the unit to ensure all the air is removed.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
Ok, MC was bench bleed after I fetched it from out in the bush
. I did notice that you get more stroke from bench bleeding than in the car. I cut some old steel lines and put the plastic lines to it to get a better seal with the MC and it actually worked much better. Now I'm going to get some beer, this should get better.....
. I did notice that you get more stroke from bench bleeding than in the car. I cut some old steel lines and put the plastic lines to it to get a better seal with the MC and it actually worked much better. Now I'm going to get some beer, this should get better.....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,425
Likes: 1,559
From: mount holly NC
2025 c3 ('74-'82) of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2019 C3 of Year Finalist (appearance mods)
After bench bleeding it will NOT get rock hard unless you remove the bleed tubes and replace them with FLARED PLUGS.
Tom454's sticky suggests to bleed the M/C on a bench rather than on the car because the M/C is not level in the car and you could leave an air pocket.
If you bought it locally I would get an exchange since you have to remove it to bench bleed it again anyway.
Then I would just gravity bleed the rear.
PG.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
Well, back with the beer. Having bench bleed, not car bleed it , it should have a different outcome. I will try to gravity bleed with the assistance of a little vacuum. I hope somebody is learning from my mistakes. I've always been able to do the brakes my way, I guess I may have just been lucky.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
Well, got fluid out the front calipers. Unfortunately the front right was leaking, I'm hoping it straightens out when I get good pressure to it. As far as the rear goes, I have no fluid using vacuum. The pistons all pull in(both sides) when vacuum is put to it but no fluid. I don't hear any leaks either. I have blown out the line earlier, it's clear.
Thanks Danny...for the correct bench bleeding lesson. Well, had I have taken the bench bleeding term seriously I would have given up my old ways. I know , I'm stubborn. Success...somewhat. Want to come over for a beer tomorrow Danny?
Thanks Danny...for the correct bench bleeding lesson. Well, had I have taken the bench bleeding term seriously I would have given up my old ways. I know , I'm stubborn. Success...somewhat. Want to come over for a beer tomorrow Danny?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
Well, Dannyman came over today to give me a hand, thanks Danny, we still weren't able to get any fluid to back brakes and when we got fluid to the front it was really slow flowing. We've decided to just let it gravity bleed for a while.
Just a question , is there a different procedure for bleeding brakes with hydroboost?
Just a question , is there a different procedure for bleeding brakes with hydroboost?
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,669
Likes: 3
From: Kingston Ontario
Thanks Rob;
Stopped in today and checked out the progress.
Progress everywhere except the brake bleeding.
Found this link to hydroboost operation:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6829161/Op...-of-HYDROBOOST
From what I can determine the brake bleed procedure should be the same for a booster or a hydroboost system.
Leaves me thinking that the issue is;
1) air still in the master,
2) brake push rod too short, or
3) the proportioning/combination valve is off center.
Is the master cylinder matched to the hydroboost? Just curious if the pushrod is the correct length.
Hopefully the gravity bleed gets fluid moving.
With any luck some hydroboost operators will chime in.
Stopped in today and checked out the progress.
Progress everywhere except the brake bleeding. Found this link to hydroboost operation:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6829161/Op...-of-HYDROBOOST
From what I can determine the brake bleed procedure should be the same for a booster or a hydroboost system.
Leaves me thinking that the issue is;
1) air still in the master,
2) brake push rod too short, or
3) the proportioning/combination valve is off center.
Is the master cylinder matched to the hydroboost? Just curious if the pushrod is the correct length.
Hopefully the gravity bleed gets fluid moving.
With any luck some hydroboost operators will chime in.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 541
Likes: 1
From: Freeport FL
Motive pressure bleeder. Its not exactly cheap, but its the best answer.
I cant even tell you how many times I've been through this.
15 minutes with the pressure bleeder, and your done.
I got mine at summit. Don't even bother taking the chains out of the bag, just use a C-clamp and a block of wood to clamp it to the master cylinder.
I assure you that you wont regret the purchase.
I cant even tell you how many times I've been through this.
15 minutes with the pressure bleeder, and your done.
I got mine at summit. Don't even bother taking the chains out of the bag, just use a C-clamp and a block of wood to clamp it to the master cylinder.
I assure you that you wont regret the purchase.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
The master does not sit level in the car and air in the actuation portion of the master cylinder gets trapped. The master has to be removed and put on a bench in the horizontal position and bled. I have mounted the master slightly nose up and then nose down as I bled the unit to ensure all the air is removed.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
No real update, between work and getting my lawn tractor going again I've been busy. Get this, the positive power cable on my tractor sent 12v through the system until the cable went under load and power cut right off. Trouble shooting night mare with these intermittent problems.
Anyhow, I went to Princess Auto and bought that hand vacuum bleeder , it was on sale so no big deal but it didn't do a thing. I'm rigging up something now , and if it works I'll let you know. It's under the same concept as the Motive bleeder. If it doesn't work then it never happened.
. I did take that little bleeder can that I had and put a small amount of pressure to it, pushing fluid seemed a lot easier than pulling. That spool in the proportioning valve keeps shifting on me , what a pain.
The good thing is Danny and I got a solid pedal on the front brakes. Updates on Monday of Tuesday.
Anyhow, I went to Princess Auto and bought that hand vacuum bleeder , it was on sale so no big deal but it didn't do a thing. I'm rigging up something now , and if it works I'll let you know. It's under the same concept as the Motive bleeder. If it doesn't work then it never happened.
. I did take that little bleeder can that I had and put a small amount of pressure to it, pushing fluid seemed a lot easier than pulling. That spool in the proportioning valve keeps shifting on me , what a pain.The good thing is Danny and I got a solid pedal on the front brakes. Updates on Monday of Tuesday.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
Positive update, a few tip that you might want to know. I bleed the brakes using positive pressure, not vacuum. That sucks. If you look at the picture you can see how I did it.A plate of steel, a big piece of rubber(helps to work for Goodyear) a small fitting, a drill, a pipe tap, a ball valve, some line and fittings and you're good to go. I had all the stuff in the shop so no problems.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,429
Likes: 20
From: Kingston Ontario
The only draw back is that you have to keep checking the master to make sure you don't run out of fluid. I did and you have to rebleed that side. Not everybody has this stuff but it's not hard to get. I only used between 10 and 15 psi too.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,669
Likes: 3
From: Kingston Ontario
Rob, thanks for the phone call!
Glad to see that worked. So do you think a piece of clear acrylic as opposed to the steel would have made life easier?
One more piece of the puzzle done.
Glad to see that worked. So do you think a piece of clear acrylic as opposed to the steel would have made life easier?
One more piece of the puzzle done.