Swapping hydraulic lifters for solid
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: scarborough maine
Swapping hydraulic lifters for solid
Hi guys. i have tuned my carb, adjusted the valve lash, and replaced most of my ignition system to find that one of the cylinders/valves? is still farting a little on the passenger side i can hear it coming out that sidepipe..... I think one of my lifters may be bad? anyways i have hydraulic in there now, can i just throw in some new solid lifters with the camshaft/ pushrods/ rocker arms set up it has now??? Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 22
From: Marina CA
Solid lifters on a hydraulic cam wont last long, there are no clearance ramps built into the lobe profile.
As far as the popping in the tailpipe, have you eliminated the possibility of a burned valve or other condition that could be the cause?
As far as the popping in the tailpipe, have you eliminated the possibility of a burned valve or other condition that could be the cause?
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: scarborough maine
No i am not sure what it is thats making it cough like that but when i adjusted the valve lash one of them, which was on the pass side, needed to be redone because it didnt seem to hold the preload like the others
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,740
Likes: 2,583
I would think a bad lifter would be collapsing resulting in a valve clatter not a noise out the exhaust. As stated above you cannt run solids on a hydraulic. How did you adjust the valves? Could you have overtightened one of the exhausts?
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: scarborough maine
I had a "professional" help me adjust them. The car was off, we rotated by hand until a valve was at right spot and adjusted to zero lash, and then like a quarter or half turn i think. One of the lifters after being adjusted seemed to loose pressure and i noticed it was loose before we started it thankfully. It was possible we just forgot that one, but when we readjusted it is seemed to be fine and ran fine for a while after the adjustment. So my best bet is just replacing with hydraulic lifters like the ones that were in there?
Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 629
Likes: 6
From: columbus ms
when i installed my new comp cam extreme hydraulic cam in my 327 i followed there instuctions and went zero lash like you. the motor ran like crap. way to tight. i pulled the vavle covers off and backed each one off while the motor was running and until it started rattling. i then tightened it back down until the rattle quit. i don't remember if i turned them anymore after they quit tapping or not (been 9 years) but no problems since then and runs great. just put a cotton towel over your motor to catch the hot engine oil. this is old school, and i'm sure there are much better ways to do.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I'm not a flat rate mechanic so I don't see the numbers and wide varieties of motor problems that some mechanics do. 30 years ago I actually rebuilt h-flat lifters. After that they were just a throw away item on motor rebuilds. I personally have not seen a h-flat lifter "fail" They are too simple. plunger, ball, spring, retainer, and body. The bleed down is determined by the oil hole diameter. The static setting doesn't have oil pressure. so a loose bore, debris... could cause the plunger to go down.
Contrary to popular myth. you can use solids on a h-cam. Especially a mild stock cam. The afore mentioned takeup or clearance ramp blah blah blah actually just determines the amount of solid lifter lash clearance needed. Call up comp cams and the guy will tell you this: running a solid or even solid roller on a h-flat or h-roller cam all that is required is that you use a very tight lash setting . Like .008 -.012
Contrary to popular myth. you can use solids on a h-cam. Especially a mild stock cam. The afore mentioned takeup or clearance ramp blah blah blah actually just determines the amount of solid lifter lash clearance needed. Call up comp cams and the guy will tell you this: running a solid or even solid roller on a h-flat or h-roller cam all that is required is that you use a very tight lash setting . Like .008 -.012
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,330
Likes: 13
From: Europe , Luxembourg
Hi
Interesting.
I was under the impression that you could use hydrolifters on a solid cam, but not viseversa. This because a hydraulic cam has steeper ramps because the hydrolifters do dampen a bit. The solids do not and need smother ramps.
But this is only what I thought is right. No rule without exemptions.
Rgds. Günther
Interesting.
I was under the impression that you could use hydrolifters on a solid cam, but not viseversa. This because a hydraulic cam has steeper ramps because the hydrolifters do dampen a bit. The solids do not and need smother ramps.
But this is only what I thought is right. No rule without exemptions.
Rgds. Günther
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Hi
Interesting.
I was under the impression that you could use hydrolifters on a solid cam, but not viseversa. This because a hydraulic cam has steeper ramps because the hydrolifters do dampen a bit. The solids do not and need smother ramps.
But this is only what I thought is right. No rule without exemptions.
Rgds. Günther
Interesting.
I was under the impression that you could use hydrolifters on a solid cam, but not viseversa. This because a hydraulic cam has steeper ramps because the hydrolifters do dampen a bit. The solids do not and need smother ramps.
But this is only what I thought is right. No rule without exemptions.
Rgds. Günther
This is what I thought also.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
What does the plug look like on that cylinder? If you're getting an irregular miss or backfire I would look first at ignition, then lifters and/or valve adjustment. A bad lifter can give indication bad ignition from an incomplete or diluted charge due to a valve not opening/closing as far as needed.
As for one valve being loose when you started, you certainly could have had a lifter collapse - they're pretty simple machines with a spring that holds up a cup and they do fail.
If you rule out ignition, then it's a matter of replacing the lifter. Lots of debate on the new lifter/used cam approach - common wisdom is that it's a bad idea, but search is your friend and you need to make up your own mind.
There's no problems with solid lifters on a mild hydraulic cam - but there's no reason to even think about this unless you're regularly turning > 5500 RPM.
As for one valve being loose when you started, you certainly could have had a lifter collapse - they're pretty simple machines with a spring that holds up a cup and they do fail.
If you rule out ignition, then it's a matter of replacing the lifter. Lots of debate on the new lifter/used cam approach - common wisdom is that it's a bad idea, but search is your friend and you need to make up your own mind.
There's no problems with solid lifters on a mild hydraulic cam - but there's no reason to even think about this unless you're regularly turning > 5500 RPM.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 297
Likes: 3
solid lifters
I've never tried solids on a hyd. cam, but maybe it will work. I will say that I have used solid flat tappet and solid rollers a lot over the years, and they are not as much of a problem as people think. These were on street small block engines, 350 and 383, and once you set the lash with a feeler gauge you are good for a lot of miles. I check the clearance on mine every now and then and it hardly ever needs adjustment. I know a lot of engine guys do not like solids, but I have found they idle better with a wild cam opposed to hyd. of the same lift. I also see a benefit of exact valve adjustment at initial startup, which is a little hard to do with hyd. I have always adjusted hyd. lifters while the engine was idling, loosen until lifter just starts to click, then slowly turn down about 1/4 to 1/2 turn to center the plunger in its travel. All my engines ran great with this hyd. adjustment.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 1
From: Europe, France
I think it mostly depends on how long your cam and your lifters have worked together.
These parts work and wear together.
Even when you replace old and slightly worn lifters with new ones of the same type, you can sometimes get into troubles ( wipe a cam lobe for instance )
These parts work and wear together.
Even when you replace old and slightly worn lifters with new ones of the same type, you can sometimes get into troubles ( wipe a cam lobe for instance )
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: Racine Wisconsin
One of my C3's had the LT1 solid cam engine. The recommendation was to set the lash "hot and running" with a feeler gauge. I would perform the adjustment this way but I was never comfortable that I was getting an exact adjustment. I would install clips on the rockers and I would install a temporary rocker arm cover that was open on the top in an attempt to contain most of the oil. A lot of oil still got on the header anyway. One of the guys in the club gave me a card to set the lash hot and not-running at the TDC position. That was less messy but I still wonder if it was "exact." Any tips from the pro tuners?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
Likes: 43
From: San Antonio TX
It will work...for some people. This is, for the most part, what a tight-lash solid flat tappet cam is. A hydraulic stick running solid flats. Some of the observations and comments made about the lash ramps are correct. This is why the hot lash settings (usually in the .006-.009 range) are critical.
I wouldn't recommend this unless you have very good reason to do so. It's not like a racing secret and in most cases, you'd want to explore the option of getting a grind more in line with what your engine needs. To do this with an L48 cam and expect something like explosive power all the sudden, unleashing the beast that lies within...forget it.
I wouldn't recommend this unless you have very good reason to do so. It's not like a racing secret and in most cases, you'd want to explore the option of getting a grind more in line with what your engine needs. To do this with an L48 cam and expect something like explosive power all the sudden, unleashing the beast that lies within...forget it.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
Likes: 43
From: San Antonio TX
The trick with the engine running method is in the feel. It's a lot easier than it sounds, but you are going by sound and resistance to the feeler gauge when the cam is on the base circle. Sure, the gauge is moving with the valvetrain and it seems impossible, but it's not and was a very common method in the pre-Internet days. It's also very accurate since there is no (not much, anyway) thermal variation between setting the first and last rocker. It sure is messy, though.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,317
Likes: 111
From: St Louis MO
One of my C3's had the LT1 solid cam engine. The recommendation was to set the lash "hot and running" with a feeler gauge. I would perform the adjustment this way but I was never comfortable that I was getting an exact adjustment. I would install clips on the rockers and I would install a temporary rocker arm cover that was open on the top in an attempt to contain most of the oil. A lot of oil still got on the header anyway. One of the guys in the club gave me a card to set the lash hot and not-running at the TDC position. That was less messy but I still wonder if it was "exact." Any tips from the pro tuners?
To get this difference, check and record all cold lash values first, and then get the engine "hot and running". Then, shut off the engine and immediately check the lash on a few cylinders before the engine cools. Compare the difference between hot and cold measurements, and adjust the hot lash settings accordingly to cold lash values to permit setting the lash "cold and not running" for future adjustments.
Last edited by larrywalk; Sep 10, 2009 at 12:39 PM.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: scarborough maine
Thanks for the info guys, sounds like i'll just replace with hydraulics to be sure since it doesnt really make a difference. I had thought solids contributed a good amoount of power and performance. Hopefully a lifter or bad adjustment was all it was
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
