Valve guide removal and installation
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Aloha, OR, USA
Valve guide removal and installation
I notice that my heads have valve guide inserts, and I want to remove the original valve guides and put in some new cast iron ones that I can machine down to accept Perfect Circle valve seals. Has anyone done this on a 454?
I know there were some issues with the 396 and 427 engines where they actually bored the holes in the guides after installing the guides in the heads. On these, if you are not careful, you have to put in new seats to line up with the old guides. I don't know if the 454 had the same problem or not.
Are the guides relatively easy to remove and re-insert on these engines? Which way do I drive them out/in? Lubricate them? heat the block in the oven? Freeze the guides or is this worth the trouble?
Thanks for any help any of you can offer.
John.
I know there were some issues with the 396 and 427 engines where they actually bored the holes in the guides after installing the guides in the heads. On these, if you are not careful, you have to put in new seats to line up with the old guides. I don't know if the 454 had the same problem or not.
Are the guides relatively easy to remove and re-insert on these engines? Which way do I drive them out/in? Lubricate them? heat the block in the oven? Freeze the guides or is this worth the trouble?
Thanks for any help any of you can offer.
John.
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Re: Valve guide removal and installation (john73bb)
The guides go in from the chamber side. They drive in and out pretty easily. Putting them in the freezer can help,but not absolutely necessary. Be careful they can be broken when driving them.
Remember, you still have to re-do the valvejob after changing them. The valve will not seat in the exact same place.
Jim
Remember, you still have to re-do the valvejob after changing them. The valve will not seat in the exact same place.
Jim
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,418
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Re: Valve guide removal and installation (427Hotrod)
John.
The trend for the last few years has been to install bronze liners in the existing guides like have been done to your heads to avoid the possibility of leaking coolant around them after work is performed.Also much easier and cost effective method with great results.What you have there can still be cut for PC seals.
Yes they have steel inserts also.Bronze are preferred for longetivity and @ 70 cents each can't be beat.
Are the inserts worn out?
The trend for the last few years has been to install bronze liners in the existing guides like have been done to your heads to avoid the possibility of leaking coolant around them after work is performed.Also much easier and cost effective method with great results.What you have there can still be cut for PC seals.
Yes they have steel inserts also.Bronze are preferred for longetivity and @ 70 cents each can't be beat.
Are the inserts worn out?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Aloha, OR, USA
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (mountainmotor)
Mountainmotor,
The inserts are steel and are not worn out. They are .500" diameter. I was warned that if I milled the old guides down to .530 for my seals that the remaining metal would be so thin (.015") that it might break away. By the way, I am putting in new valves too, don't know if that makes a difference.
[Modified by john73bb, 7:43 AM 2/21/2002]
The inserts are steel and are not worn out. They are .500" diameter. I was warned that if I milled the old guides down to .530 for my seals that the remaining metal would be so thin (.015") that it might break away. By the way, I am putting in new valves too, don't know if that makes a difference.
[Modified by john73bb, 7:43 AM 2/21/2002]
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 1
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (john73bb)
Sounds as if already machined for .500 PC seals.Those are usually used with 11/32 valves.Ask machine shop to confirm
If using stainless valves bronze guides are more compatible as far as lasting longer so just make sure the shop knows to use the sealer when installing new guides and all will be ok except as 427 Hotrod has advised-valve seat grind will be needed.
[Modified by mountainmotor, 10:42 AM 2/21/2002]
If using stainless valves bronze guides are more compatible as far as lasting longer so just make sure the shop knows to use the sealer when installing new guides and all will be ok except as 427 Hotrod has advised-valve seat grind will be needed.
[Modified by mountainmotor, 10:42 AM 2/21/2002]
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Aloha, OR, USA
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (mountainmotor)
No, they are not machined for .500 seals, the guides that are there are flush with the top of the old cast guides. I will have to machine them. I am planning on installing the guides myself (hence the need for this post). What sealer do I need to use when installing? Do they make bronze guides that are the same diameter as my original cast guides, or are bronze guides only available as inserts? I had heard that sometimes the bronze guides will slide down into the pocket. Is that a real problem, or just one machinist's bias?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 795
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From: Madison MS
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (john73bb)
John, I have been using bronze guides for years and have never had one move or heard of that happening. I guess it is possible if a machinist put the wrong size guide in the head to begin with.
dl
dl
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
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Re: Valve guide removal and installation (john73bb)
They make replacement bronze guides in stock od and oversized.I have never heard exactly what sealer is used.Probably hitemp epoxy like used for repair wnen ported too far ,ect.I think though you can machine what you got since the inserts are good.Seen it done many times.In your first post you stated the guides"bosses" are now .500.Something has been done to them?Or I am lost in this somehow.
You will also need to ream the new guides to size
Can you post or email a pic?
[Modified by mountainmotor, 1:37 PM 2/21/2002]
You will also need to ream the new guides to size
Can you post or email a pic?
[Modified by mountainmotor, 1:37 PM 2/21/2002]
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Aloha, OR, USA
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (mountainmotor)
The steel guide inserts in the engine now are .5" diamter, but are inserted inside the original cast iron guides. So, the cast iron guides will need to be machined down to .530 to accept the seals, leaving .015" of cast iron around the steel inserts.
I should have phrased my question differently. Do they make bronze guides in the same OD as the cast ones so I can just drive out the cast ones and drive in the bronze ones? Or, are all of the bronze guides just inserts to be inserted inside the cast guides?
If they are inserts, I would probably be wise to just keep the steel inserts that are there now I think since they are not worn much (only 5K miles or so on them).
I will be putting in new larger Manley SS valves (2.19/1.88), so I will need to have new exhaust seats put in (to replace the smaller hardened ones I had put in before), and grind the intake seats larger. Then I will finish porting to the larger seats and hopefully be done.
Just gotta figure out the best way to do the guides . . . . .
I should have phrased my question differently. Do they make bronze guides in the same OD as the cast ones so I can just drive out the cast ones and drive in the bronze ones? Or, are all of the bronze guides just inserts to be inserted inside the cast guides?
If they are inserts, I would probably be wise to just keep the steel inserts that are there now I think since they are not worn much (only 5K miles or so on them).
I will be putting in new larger Manley SS valves (2.19/1.88), so I will need to have new exhaust seats put in (to replace the smaller hardened ones I had put in before), and grind the intake seats larger. Then I will finish porting to the larger seats and hopefully be done.
Just gotta figure out the best way to do the guides . . . . .
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 1
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (john73bb)
I see,they put huge inserts in instead of the thin liners.
Should be able to get the new guides locally from a machine shop.Cut down for seals after installed.If not,Competition Products have them for $55.00 a set of 16
Part#8024
edited to add
Crane seal #99828-16 fits .500 and 3/8 valve stem are you a tad over .500 by chance for good fit?
Jegs has those seals.If they will work for you will save you some money and time
[Modified by mountainmotor, 4:11 PM 2/21/2002]
Should be able to get the new guides locally from a machine shop.Cut down for seals after installed.If not,Competition Products have them for $55.00 a set of 16
Part#8024
edited to add
Crane seal #99828-16 fits .500 and 3/8 valve stem are you a tad over .500 by chance for good fit?
Jegs has those seals.If they will work for you will save you some money and time
[Modified by mountainmotor, 4:11 PM 2/21/2002]
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Aloha, OR, USA
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (mountainmotor)
I might do that.
It would be nice not to have to replace the guides (although I already bought them, kind of, I haven't paid for them yet).
It would be nice not to have to replace the guides (although I already bought them, kind of, I haven't paid for them yet).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (john73bb)
Below is link to Goodson's BB. Goodson is a major supplier to automotive machine shops. Their BB is staffed by seasoned auto machine shop pros. A technical question posted on their BB is often answered by both Goodson staffers & other machinists. I post this for general info only ... and not to detract from other professionals here on this forum.
http://www.goodson.com/scripts/messageboard/view.cgi
http://www.goodson.com/scripts/messageboard/view.cgi
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 1
Re: Valve guide removal and installation (jackson)
Jackson,
Yes they have alot of cool stuff. Including and adapter to get a passenger side factory exhaust manifold to an early head on F Body cars.
I don't have one but bet the catalog is at least 2 inches thick
Yes they have alot of cool stuff. Including and adapter to get a passenger side factory exhaust manifold to an early head on F Body cars.
I don't have one but bet the catalog is at least 2 inches thick
