1970: Possible Bent Lower A-arm
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 763
Likes: 42
From: Detroit MI
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
It sounds like you have pretty much checked everything out. If it will make you feel any better, I just measured my wheelbase on my 80 which has a perfectly square frame and all new VBP a-arms, and mine is off right to left about 3/4". I checked my frame when it was off the body sitting on sawhorses so I know it is square. It measured perfect from front to rear and then diagonally from front to rear. I also measured a friends 73 which has a perfect frame and all new componets and it also measured about 3/4" difference right to left on wheelbase. I also had a 73 years ago that I had bought that had been somewhat restored, and I drove it for about 10 years event free until I decided to do a frame off restoration. Keep in mind that I put about 100,000 miles on the car before the body came off. At body removal time, I discovered the frame was bent, the right front off the frame was pushed back about 1 1/4", which changed the wheelbase that much also, but the car drove and handled fine. I know that when you move shims front to rear to adjust caster that the wheelbase will change slightly. Maybe when you align the front end the wheelbase will be closer right to left. I hope this will ease your mind, and if you haven't found any other problems I would put the car together and drive it. This is coming from me, a real picky guy when it comes to assembly. Stuff like this bothers me also on my cars, but maybe a little difference in the wheelbase is not a problem as long as it is within 1" or so. How bout you other c-3 owners, measure the wheelbase on your car and see how close it is right to left. I bet not many are dead on perfect.
Thanks for the comments. I am interested in hearing any other opinions on this as well. Currently, the difference is approximately 1/2 inch with no shims in place on the upper a-arms.
Here are the facts:
1. The frame measured square when I purchased it. The body had no issues whatsoever going back down onto the new frame and suspension. All mounts lined up and the door gaps are fine.
2. The DS lower a-arm is not bent. It is within specs of a new one from Van Steel which I did not mount.
3. The lower front a-arm mount appears to have been re-welded, but it measures out the same in terms of angle compared to the PS.
4. I see no (and have never seen) any visable damage to the frame. No kinks, no waves, nothing to indicate an issue.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
From: GRIMSBY N.E.LINCS. U.K.
Bottom ball joint, are the ears a tight fit against inner a-arm? there were issues a while ago with import replacements being outa sync with U.S. quality ones.
Any news on support spindle being ok? and top a-arm.
A probably not too strange question after all this but what if this 1/2" or 3/8" is at rear of car (or a combo of both..not hopefully!).
Looking in SAM.
Any news on support spindle being ok? and top a-arm.
A probably not too strange question after all this but what if this 1/2" or 3/8" is at rear of car (or a combo of both..not hopefully!).
Looking in SAM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 763
Likes: 42
From: Detroit MI
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Bottom ball joint, are the ears a tight fit against inner a-arm? there were issues a while ago with import replacements being outa sync with U.S. quality ones.
Any news on support spindle being ok? and top a-arm.
A probably not too strange question after all this but what if this 1/2" or 3/8" is at rear of car (or a combo of both..not hopefully!).
Looking in SAM.
Any news on support spindle being ok? and top a-arm.
A probably not too strange question after all this but what if this 1/2" or 3/8" is at rear of car (or a combo of both..not hopefully!).
Looking in SAM.
The 1/2 inch difference is definately 100% in front of the doors. It can be measured within the wheelwell (center of hub to back of wheelwell, center of hub to front of wheelwell, etc.) and really seems to be based on the lower a-arm or mount.
At this point, if I were to skew the lower a-arm mount probably a 1/8 - 1/4 inch, I feel that the wheelbase would be correct. Obviously, this is a big job and I would probably need to yank the engine.
Should I get this 1/2 inch difference squared up or should I get it over to the alignment shop to see if they can get it pretty close? The caster can probably be altered to "buy" a 1/16 of an inch without totally hosing the camber at this point.
Do you think guys think it will align?
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
From: GRIMSBY N.E.LINCS. U.K.
I still think its the old a-arm maybee?WHY? Icant understand looking back at the pictures why the a-arm looks old with a few dings and scuffs etc yet the pivot shaft looks new in its new casting color,even the stamp codes look clean though the retaining bolts are rusty.So what happened to the original? why not rebuild with the original if it was ok?Suposing it was'nt say it was bent then how was it bent thats some whack if it was, maybe it broke out some of the tack welds on the bracket,if so gota be some distortion of old a-arm surely?
Do you think it worth mounting the new a-arm (i know you wont be able to return it and be out over$100 or so )and see what happens.It's gonna be more than that with a competant alignment with the posibility of no improvement at the end.
Im thinking 1/2" at the extemety of a triangle could equate to say 3/32" at the pivot side still very hard to see or measure ???
SAM.
Do you think it worth mounting the new a-arm (i know you wont be able to return it and be out over$100 or so )and see what happens.It's gonna be more than that with a competant alignment with the posibility of no improvement at the end.
Im thinking 1/2" at the extemety of a triangle could equate to say 3/32" at the pivot side still very hard to see or measure ???
SAM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 763
Likes: 42
From: Detroit MI
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
I still think its the old a-arm maybee?WHY? Icant understand looking back at the pictures why the a-arm looks old with a few dings and scuffs etc yet the pivot shaft looks new in its new casting color,even the stamp codes look clean though the retaining bolts are rusty.So what happened to the original? why not rebuild with the original if it was ok?Suposing it was'nt say it was bent then how was it bent thats some whack if it was, maybe it broke out some of the tack welds on the bracket,if so gota be some distortion of old a-arm surely?
Do you think it worth mounting the new a-arm (i know you wont be able to return it and be out over$100 or so )and see what happens.It's gonna be more than that with a competant alignment with the posibility of no improvement at the end.
Im thinking 1/2" at the extemety of a triangle could equate to say 3/32" at the pivot side still very hard to see or measure ???
SAM.
Do you think it worth mounting the new a-arm (i know you wont be able to return it and be out over$100 or so )and see what happens.It's gonna be more than that with a competant alignment with the posibility of no improvement at the end.
Im thinking 1/2" at the extemety of a triangle could equate to say 3/32" at the pivot side still very hard to see or measure ???
SAM.1. The original chassis was pretty rusted. I came accross the rebuilt chassis, measured it and went with it for the restoration. The old one would have need a fair amount of repair....although the wheelbase was 98 inches.
2. I think I am going to mount the new a-arm. I know this will void a return to Dan, but if it turns out with the same result, then I know the core is at least good which will get me $100 back. If the new arm fixes it, then I would be happy to be out the core if you know what I mean. I am about 95% confident it will not fix the issue based upon my measurements however.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
From: GRIMSBY N.E.LINCS. U.K.
Last 1/2 Outa box thoughts of today!
Looking back at your photo of pivot shaft attachment bracket to frame.
It's been pointed out full seam weld to inner side.
But why not do outer side at same time? no indication on photo of grinding or weld.
Going back to inner side is there any indication of a grinding wheel touching the outa face of bracket if so this may indicate bracket was in situ ie. still attached to frame at time of weld and would possibly still be in align due to the X2 front bolts to top strap.
Looking at cross member towards the big fat rear retaining bolt there is an indentation similar to a spot weld or maybe not.THIS NEEDS negating against someone elses frame'
Whilst that is checked out the inner spot welds need comparing for size/ legth etc.
I realy think with a restored frame it would be reasonable to think a vette person may just have strengthened a week point before painting.Maybee worth looking at oposite side real careful for similar.
That indentation i mentined is getting near1/2".
Also unless its reflection both top a-arms powder coating dont look too old at all neither do the pivot shafts, nor does the passenger side lower a-arm though cant see the shaft there.
Now for today buddy it's ol weller 107 time.
GOOD LUCK FOR TODAY .............SAM.
Looking back at your photo of pivot shaft attachment bracket to frame.
It's been pointed out full seam weld to inner side.
But why not do outer side at same time? no indication on photo of grinding or weld.
Going back to inner side is there any indication of a grinding wheel touching the outa face of bracket if so this may indicate bracket was in situ ie. still attached to frame at time of weld and would possibly still be in align due to the X2 front bolts to top strap.
Looking at cross member towards the big fat rear retaining bolt there is an indentation similar to a spot weld or maybe not.THIS NEEDS negating against someone elses frame'
Whilst that is checked out the inner spot welds need comparing for size/ legth etc.
I realy think with a restored frame it would be reasonable to think a vette person may just have strengthened a week point before painting.Maybee worth looking at oposite side real careful for similar.
That indentation i mentined is getting near1/2".
Also unless its reflection both top a-arms powder coating dont look too old at all neither do the pivot shafts, nor does the passenger side lower a-arm though cant see the shaft there.
Now for today buddy it's ol weller 107 time.
GOOD LUCK FOR TODAY .............SAM.
Last edited by SARASOTA SAM; Oct 5, 2009 at 03:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 763
Likes: 42
From: Detroit MI
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Ok, its been almost two years that I walked away from this project. Four young children and a bunch of other distractions.
I am re-assembling this front end over the next couple of days and getting this 1970 off to an alignment/frame shop.
Any suggestions within the Detroit Metro area on a shop to help deal with this issue?
Does anyone have experience with Jakes Automotive in Sterling Heights?
Thanks
I am re-assembling this front end over the next couple of days and getting this 1970 off to an alignment/frame shop.
Any suggestions within the Detroit Metro area on a shop to help deal with this issue?
Does anyone have experience with Jakes Automotive in Sterling Heights?
Thanks
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
There used to be a guy at Bluewater Tire on Gratiot North of 23mi. rd. that was real good with Vette wheel alignments. I don't know if he's still there but it would be worth the time to call and find out.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 763
Likes: 42
From: Detroit MI
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
I will look him up.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
Mabye the problem is on the other side? Maybe the other side is out of spec???
BTW: with a long tape measure, what should be the distance from axle centers on each side? Next time I look at a C3 I intend to take a long, windup cloth tape measure. I'm almost afraid to measure my '74 coupe tonight
BTW: with a long tape measure, what should be the distance from axle centers on each side? Next time I look at a C3 I intend to take a long, windup cloth tape measure. I'm almost afraid to measure my '74 coupe tonight
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 763
Likes: 42
From: Detroit MI
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
Mabye the problem is on the other side? Maybe the other side is out of spec???
BTW: with a long tape measure, what should be the distance from axle centers on each side? Next time I look at a C3 I intend to take a long, windup cloth tape measure. I'm almost afraid to measure my '74 coupe tonight
BTW: with a long tape measure, what should be the distance from axle centers on each side? Next time I look at a C3 I intend to take a long, windup cloth tape measure. I'm almost afraid to measure my '74 coupe tonight
