Tons of understeer
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 1
From: Wylie TX
Tons of understeer
I took my car to a local Khana race (low speed autocross). I was amazed at how much understeer my car has. At speed, it would just keep going straight even though the wheel was turned. The parking lot used had quite a bit of gravel, but it looked like the other cars did have the problem near as bad as I did.
I believe that this would be due to bad weight transfer, so I started thinking about how I deviated from stock. I have Al heads, intake and radiator, VB 460 lb/in front springs, a Lakewood bellhousing, 17" Wheel Vintiques with 255/50 back and 245/45 front and a VB fiberglass spring in back.
I would think that the bellhousing pretty much offsets the Al stuff on the engine. In the turns, the car is pretty much staying flat even though I have the stock front sway bar and none on the rear.
The car was aligned within factory specs less than 3000 miles ago. I don't think this is an alignment problem, but I'm open to any theories.
I believe that this would be due to bad weight transfer, so I started thinking about how I deviated from stock. I have Al heads, intake and radiator, VB 460 lb/in front springs, a Lakewood bellhousing, 17" Wheel Vintiques with 255/50 back and 245/45 front and a VB fiberglass spring in back.
I would think that the bellhousing pretty much offsets the Al stuff on the engine. In the turns, the car is pretty much staying flat even though I have the stock front sway bar and none on the rear.
The car was aligned within factory specs less than 3000 miles ago. I don't think this is an alignment problem, but I'm open to any theories.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 1
From: Elkhorn WI
Re: Tons of understeer (Marks69BB)
yes he does have it
[Modified by ylose, 10:24 AM 2/25/2002]
the car is pretty much staying flat even though I have the stock front sway bar and none on the rear
[Modified by ylose, 10:24 AM 2/25/2002]
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59
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From: hemet CA
Re: Tons of understeer (Chris A)
You may be able to avoid some of this by changing your technique. For example just before entering a turn, a quick jab at the break will transfer weight up front and squash the front tires giving you more traction up front via increased weight and a larger footprint. Easing on the gas in the turn may induce a push but jumping on it willl surely set you loose. There is a balance here and time will help you figure you car out. BTW vettes were designed as pushers (understeer) from the factory and setting the alignment to factory specs will only reinforce this. This was done as a pusher is far safer for the average Joe (no offense to all the Joe's out there) than a loose car is, however loose cars are generally quicker. Play with the caster a little bit and you may be surprised. Have fun trying to get her figure out!
[Modified by 77inprogress, 10:40 AM 2/25/2002]
[Modified by 77inprogress, 4:25 PM 2/27/2002]
[Modified by 77inprogress, 10:40 AM 2/25/2002]
[Modified by 77inprogress, 4:25 PM 2/27/2002]
Racer
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 371
Likes: 1
From: Nashville TN
Re: Tons of understeer (77inprogress)
Even thought the C2/C3 cars can be made to corner flat, the front can still show a big camber change. The low profile tires may be loosing traction because of this. There are a few things to try though; tire pressure, run zero to positive camber on the rear, negative camber with zero toe-in on the front. You'll just have to tinker.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
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Re: Tons of understeer (Chris A)
You've stiffened the front suspension with the 460lb springs. What have you done to the rear?
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,462
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From: Reno nevada
Re: Tons of understeer (stngry63)
I auto-X and your never going to do wel with anything near stock alignment settings. VB&P has the base settings. To set your tire pressures right you need a tire temp guage.
Without correct settings and good tires no amount of suspension mods will make it go faster
Without correct settings and good tires no amount of suspension mods will make it go faster
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Maine
Re: Tons of understeer (flynhi)
Kind of radical, but what happens if you remove your front sway bar? Might roll more but be more balanced. I agree with others that best solution would probably be to stiffen up the rear. You need a skid pad (don't we all - LOL)!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 1
From: Wylie TX
Re: Tons of understeer (Frank75)
77inprogress - I tried changing my technique, but it didn't help much. Also, you stat that when the car "pushes", it's oversteer. Is this correct? I've read that if the front end pushes, it's understeer and if the rear slides it's oversteer.
stngry63 - I do have a lifetime alignment from Firestone, but I'm sure they will not let me use it to "tweak" my settings. Is there any way (ie instructions) that I can make changes myself?
ddecart - I have a VB dual mount rear spring set at the second to stiffest position.
flynhi - I will probably get a rear stabar. I would have already, but the car does not roll at all now.
I believe the biggest problem was the amount of gravel in the parking lot. It may have just made my understeer that much worse. I tried to brake early and use the throttle for some oversteer, but the throttle would at first just push the car more and by the time I got the rear end to swing around, I was way outside the turn. I did run this car once about 1 1/2 years ago and I was "hanging" with the C4s and C5s pretty well and was having fun. I do remember some understeer, but not nearly as much as I noticed this last time. It was just plain not fun driving it. I did still manage to beat the 3 late model Mustangs that were there.
stngry63 - I do have a lifetime alignment from Firestone, but I'm sure they will not let me use it to "tweak" my settings. Is there any way (ie instructions) that I can make changes myself?
ddecart - I have a VB dual mount rear spring set at the second to stiffest position.
flynhi - I will probably get a rear stabar. I would have already, but the car does not roll at all now.
I believe the biggest problem was the amount of gravel in the parking lot. It may have just made my understeer that much worse. I tried to brake early and use the throttle for some oversteer, but the throttle would at first just push the car more and by the time I got the rear end to swing around, I was way outside the turn. I did run this car once about 1 1/2 years ago and I was "hanging" with the C4s and C5s pretty well and was having fun. I do remember some understeer, but not nearly as much as I noticed this last time. It was just plain not fun driving it. I did still manage to beat the 3 late model Mustangs that were there.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 534
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From: FL
Re: Tons of understeer (Chris A)
if the front end pushes, it's understeer and if the rear slides it's oversteer.
I will probably get a rear stabar. I would have already, but the car does not roll at all now.
Since it sounds as though you like your car stiff, I recommend a VB&P rear sway bar and their adjustable end links with very hard bushings and poly pivots (I have a 3/4" bar, though I only have a single mount 400 lb VB&P rear spring from days of yore). You can use the adjustable end links to fine tune your balance, even at the track, by tightening/loosening the link nuts.
-Noel
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,242
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From: Lexington, North Carolina
Re: Tons of understeer (Chris A)
The parking lot used had quite a bit of gravel
