383 cam break in.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 412
Likes: 1
From: St. John's Newfoundland
383 cam break in.
Well it finally happened, she roared to life...
350 4 bolt main, .030 over bore, Eagle Crank and Rods, Speed pro -12 dish pistons, deck planed to accomplish 10:1 C/R, H/V Oil Pump, 7 QT base pan, Edelbrock 200cc Vortec Heads, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap Intake, Aluminum Roller Tip Rockers, 770 Holly.
We used the old valve covers from the old 350, [I]a little sandblastind, polishing and painting[I].
I am already aware this set up won't fit under my stock hood but that is only one more issue that has to be dealt with on this build.
The motor stand set up didn't quite work out, rad too far from the fan, she started to run a little warm.
Thanks for your time
C
350 4 bolt main, .030 over bore, Eagle Crank and Rods, Speed pro -12 dish pistons, deck planed to accomplish 10:1 C/R, H/V Oil Pump, 7 QT base pan, Edelbrock 200cc Vortec Heads, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap Intake, Aluminum Roller Tip Rockers, 770 Holly.
We used the old valve covers from the old 350, [I]a little sandblastind, polishing and painting[I].
I am already aware this set up won't fit under my stock hood but that is only one more issue that has to be dealt with on this build.
The motor stand set up didn't quite work out, rad too far from the fan, she started to run a little warm.
Thanks for your time
C
Last edited by cboyd; Apr 27, 2010 at 07:30 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 412
Likes: 1
From: St. John's Newfoundland
Yes, i have heard that before, I made sure the engine was running before and timed before I installed the breather. I went with that breather cause I know the set up I have is not going to fit under the hood with a full sise breather. I haven't figured out what set up I can use yet, and that one was cheap. If I need to bin it then it's no biggie.
Thanks for the input.
C
Thanks for the input.
C
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Great setup and I can see allot of time and work went into the engine test stand. However I am not a big fan of the test stands unless you are building motors for other people and it is a business. For a roller cam motor there is no break in so it is much easier just to put it in the engine bay and start it up. Even with a flat tapper cam it is easier, you just run it in for 20 minutes, look for leaks and heat problems then take it out and seat the rings
The rings should be seated using the proper procedure as soon as the motor is ready. For a roller cam motor that is 5 mins to warm up and check for leaks for a flat tappet it is 20 minutes then take it out an let it rip to seat the rings otherwise you could have oil control problems in the future if you are starting it up and running for long periods for time on an engine stand with no load on it.
The rings should be seated using the proper procedure as soon as the motor is ready. For a roller cam motor that is 5 mins to warm up and check for leaks for a flat tappet it is 20 minutes then take it out an let it rip to seat the rings otherwise you could have oil control problems in the future if you are starting it up and running for long periods for time on an engine stand with no load on it.
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: London England
I'm used to building high revving 4 cylinders and on those I'd hold the rpm above 2000rpm for at least 15-20mins on a new cam.
Even on my brothers old 318 Chrysler engine I used the same practice, it's just not worth wiping a cam out for the sake of 20 minutes.
Even on my brothers old 318 Chrysler engine I used the same practice, it's just not worth wiping a cam out for the sake of 20 minutes.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Thompson Falls MT
Great setup and I can see allot of time and work went into the engine test stand. However I am not a big fan of the test stands unless you are building motors for other people and it is a business. For a roller cam motor there is no break in so it is much easier just to put it in the engine bay and start it up. Even with a flat tapper cam it is easier, you just run it in for 20 minutes, look for leaks and heat problems then take it out and seat the rings
The rings should be seated using the proper procedure as soon as the motor is ready. For a roller cam motor that is 5 mins to warm up and check for leaks for a flat tappet it is 20 minutes then take it out an let it rip to seat the rings otherwise you could have oil control problems in the future if you are starting it up and running for long periods for time on an engine stand with no load on it.
The rings should be seated using the proper procedure as soon as the motor is ready. For a roller cam motor that is 5 mins to warm up and check for leaks for a flat tappet it is 20 minutes then take it out an let it rip to seat the rings otherwise you could have oil control problems in the future if you are starting it up and running for long periods for time on an engine stand with no load on it.
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
I am thinking of building an engine test stand for my motor. You say I should just install the motor, run it for 20 minutes at around 2,000 rpm and the shut it down. Do you suggest pulling the motor back out and check for leaks or just give a visual inspection while it is in? I thought the rings were set during the 20 min. of "testing." Finally, does let it rip mean drive normally or really push it? Thanks for you feedback,
I had my brand new 427ci motor up to 5000 RPM on the street 5 minutes after I had it running. If it wasn't built properly it's going to fail the first 5 minutes or 2 months down the road. Mine runs like a clock a year later with 10k on it. Drag racers don't baby their motors for 500 miles, 1/4 mile at a time
They break in the cam and then make a full power pass
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Why would you need to pull it out to check for leaks ? Built properly there should be no leaks. If there is then you fix them in the car. The test stand IMHO is a waste of time and sure you can break in a flat tappet cam with it but I don't care what the other master mechanics say about seating rings, you need the pressure on the rings under load after it has seen 4-5000 RPM when you let you foot off the gas to seat them properly. You do that 3 or 4 times and your done.
I had my brand new 427ci motor up to 5000 RPM on the street 5 minutes after I had it running. If it wasn't built properly it's going to fail the first 5 minutes or 2 months down the road. Mine runs like a clock a year later with 10k on it. Drag racers don't baby their motors for 500 miles, 1/4 mile at a time They break in the cam and then make a full power pass
I had my brand new 427ci motor up to 5000 RPM on the street 5 minutes after I had it running. If it wasn't built properly it's going to fail the first 5 minutes or 2 months down the road. Mine runs like a clock a year later with 10k on it. Drag racers don't baby their motors for 500 miles, 1/4 mile at a time
They break in the cam and then make a full power pass 
Have done the same for many a motor. Mine saw 6500 rpm in the first 5 miles after break in. I have been driving it hard ever since with no problems. If it was machined and built properly it will last.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
i think test stands are cool......i would like to build one some day for ****s and grins.....have i ever used one no....would i like one sure.....would i pull and engine out to look for leaks....NO if they are there the garage floor will tell you.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 330
Likes: 44
From: Cincinnati Ohio
Perfect Circle Rep told me many years ago the way to break in rings was to get on highway and let it coast down to as slow as you can go in High Gear and then floor it (without changing gear) until you get to 60-70 then let it coast down again. Do this 15 times and the rings are properly seated. The theory was that under load accelerating you were washing down the cylinder walls and during the coast down you were getting them lubricated again. I have done this for many years and have not had an oil burner yet.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
The basic idea is to force the rings into cylinder walls with as much pressure as possible as soon as you after the motor is built. This is "seating" the rings.
The way you describe is fine. I put it in second or third and punch it to about 4500-5000 rpm and then let my foot off and let the engine slow it down. Doing this forces the rings into the walls a different way than under acceleration. Been a while since I read the exact theory behind it but I do this 3 or 4 times and I have never had an oil burner. As a matter of fact I never even check the oil, I just change it in the spring and fall.
The way you describe is fine. I put it in second or third and punch it to about 4500-5000 rpm and then let my foot off and let the engine slow it down. Doing this forces the rings into the walls a different way than under acceleration. Been a while since I read the exact theory behind it but I do this 3 or 4 times and I have never had an oil burner. As a matter of fact I never even check the oil, I just change it in the spring and fall.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 412
Likes: 1
From: St. John's Newfoundland
Great setup and I can see allot of time and work went into the engine test stand. However I am not a big fan of the test stands unless you are building motors for other people and it is a business. For a roller cam motor there is no break in so it is much easier just to put it in the engine bay and start it up. Even with a flat tapper cam it is easier, you just run it in for 20 minutes, look for leaks and heat problems then take it out and seat the rings
The rings should be seated using the proper procedure as soon as the motor is ready. For a roller cam motor that is 5 mins to warm up and check for leaks for a flat tappet it is 20 minutes then take it out an let it rip to seat the rings otherwise you could have oil control problems in the future if you are starting it up and running for long periods for time on an engine stand with no load on it.
The rings should be seated using the proper procedure as soon as the motor is ready. For a roller cam motor that is 5 mins to warm up and check for leaks for a flat tappet it is 20 minutes then take it out an let it rip to seat the rings otherwise you could have oil control problems in the future if you are starting it up and running for long periods for time on an engine stand with no load on it.
C
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,463
Likes: 1,889
From: Folsom CA
With modern moly rings the old break in procedures are now extinct. Break in the cam as is stated many times on this forum. If you run moly rings, and you should run moly rings with the proper cyl finish the rings will seal up within 10 minutes of run time. The first moderate acceleration under load will do the job.
All of the older information on Ring break in comes from the days of Cast Iron rings, common up till 1982 or so in most factory engines. Cast iron rings are now gone except for some second rings, the scraper ring. Your compression is held by the top ring and those are all moly now. Some of the newest engines are testing or running more exotic compounds than moly. New car standards are pushing manufacturers to produce ring packs that offer up to 20,000 miles per quart of oil consumption to reduce emmisions and to maintain these standards for more than 100,000 miles. The old days of burning oil are pretty much gone. You have all enjoyed the results of this upgrade in your passenger cars that now run 250,000 miles and burn no oil. ( I know fuel injection has helped a lot to this end ).
Cast rings, the old standard, wore much faster and broke in much harder.
All of the older information on Ring break in comes from the days of Cast Iron rings, common up till 1982 or so in most factory engines. Cast iron rings are now gone except for some second rings, the scraper ring. Your compression is held by the top ring and those are all moly now. Some of the newest engines are testing or running more exotic compounds than moly. New car standards are pushing manufacturers to produce ring packs that offer up to 20,000 miles per quart of oil consumption to reduce emmisions and to maintain these standards for more than 100,000 miles. The old days of burning oil are pretty much gone. You have all enjoyed the results of this upgrade in your passenger cars that now run 250,000 miles and burn no oil. ( I know fuel injection has helped a lot to this end ).
Cast rings, the old standard, wore much faster and broke in much harder.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 441
Likes: 2
From: San Antonio TX
I've used a buddys test stand ,and although not a requirement it was nice to be able to get to everything easily & stab motor with all pulleys and exhaust manifolds , timing set ,starter already hooked up instead of fighting them in the car !
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
With modern moly rings the old break in procedures are now extinct. Break in the cam as is stated many times on this forum. If you run moly rings, and you should run moly rings with the proper cyl finish the rings will seal up within 10 minutes of run time. The first moderate acceleration under load will do the job.
All of the older information on Ring break in comes from the days of Cast Iron rings, common up till 1982 or so in most factory engines. Cast iron rings are now gone except for some second rings, the scraper ring. Your compression is held by the top ring and those are all moly now. Some of the newest engines are testing or running more exotic compounds than moly. New car standards are pushing manufacturers to produce ring packs that offer up to 20,000 miles per quart of oil consumption to reduce emmisions and to maintain these standards for more than 100,000 miles. The old days of burning oil are pretty much gone. You have all enjoyed the results of this upgrade in your passenger cars that now run 250,000 miles and burn no oil. ( I know fuel injection has helped a lot to this end ).
Cast rings, the old standard, wore much faster and broke in much harder.
All of the older information on Ring break in comes from the days of Cast Iron rings, common up till 1982 or so in most factory engines. Cast iron rings are now gone except for some second rings, the scraper ring. Your compression is held by the top ring and those are all moly now. Some of the newest engines are testing or running more exotic compounds than moly. New car standards are pushing manufacturers to produce ring packs that offer up to 20,000 miles per quart of oil consumption to reduce emmisions and to maintain these standards for more than 100,000 miles. The old days of burning oil are pretty much gone. You have all enjoyed the results of this upgrade in your passenger cars that now run 250,000 miles and burn no oil. ( I know fuel injection has helped a lot to this end ).
Cast rings, the old standard, wore much faster and broke in much harder.
We have done alot of leak downs on freashly rebuilt engines to find up to 40% leak down and some engines were up around 5000 Miles on them and one of the biggest complaints was dirty oil in less then 10 miles.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,463
Likes: 1,889
From: Folsom CA
As far as ring seating it really depends on how the cylinders we prepared plate honed to what was being used as far as head bolts, gaskets,
We have done alot of leak downs on freashly rebuilt engines to find up to 40% leak down and some engines were up around 5000 Miles on them and one of the biggest complaints was dirty oil in less then 10 miles.
We have done alot of leak downs on freashly rebuilt engines to find up to 40% leak down and some engines were up around 5000 Miles on them and one of the biggest complaints was dirty oil in less then 10 miles.