63mako

Various oil testing laboratories. Most are close in numbers across the board on the same oils tested at different times by different labs with a few exceptions. Amsoil, RP and Redline seem to be the only ones that are consistantly close to their claims. They are right there on Z & P compared to their claims. Some are showing close to half of the advertised amounts of ZDDP. Suprisingly Brad Penn 10W-30 is the worst as far as claimed content Vs test results. 4 or 5 different labs. Even a retest from Brad Penn showed right at 1000 PPM Z and 900 PPM P. Do some research here:
http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...oard=11&page=1

glen242

I thought I did a complete search on VR-1, VOA, and only found some results from Blackstone.

Can you lead me, on BITOG, to where other lab's results on VR-1 are posted?

Thank you,

63mako

There are those that are not trusting Blackstone's results. The thing is there are quite a few VR1 and Brad Penn 10W-30 tests. Most are in a similar range of zinc and phos when compared to other tests of the same oil. Much lower than advertised. Then there are numerous tests from Blackstone on Amsoil, Redline RP. These tests again are pretty uniform across the board when looking at the results of one test vs another on the same oil but they are testing right where advertised by the manufacturer. So either Blackstone is conspiring to discredit some oils Vs others. Their testing is suspect only when testing certain oils, or the manufacturers are lying about the amounts of key additives in their product. I would lean toward the latter.

BTW Brad Penn 10W-30 advertises 1500 PPM on Zinc. All the tests I found on this oil from 4 or 5 different labs are showing from 733 to 1113. Brad Penn tested a sample sent in to them in their lab and it showed 1005 PPM Zinc. WTF! Can't blame Blackstone Labs. BTW, this is all they do is test oil.
The recent Rotella tests are lower also. The problem is the oil formulations are changed a lot of times and the websites are not.

billla

Folks, I got a ton of great stuff in PM and posted here - I'll start sorting through all this stuff and summarize back.

One point to be clear on - GRADE DOES MATTER! SM and GF-4 apply to SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30...so the same oil on one of these grades vs. the grades referenced in the list may show different results. Also be sure you're looking at the right oil - for example, for Shell in particular they are ONLY stating that Shell Rotella T Multigrade has 1200 ppm - not Shell Rotella synthetic or any other type.

I'm concerned with the amout of information coming back regarding current tests that don't validate the mfgr's claims - this is clearly a major concern and worth follow-up.

I've been using Blackstone for oil testing for a while, including for my aircraft so I'm pretty confident in the quality of their tests. There may be other factors, but I'll dig through this stuff and see what I can find...and send off some tests myself.

roscobbc

In the UK we have some of the USA sourced oil with zddp like VR1 and others. UK based manufacturer Millers have Classic 20-50 Mineral with (supposedly) 1200 ppm content plus semi-synthetic and full synthetic oils with zddp. Prices are reasonable too - just under £20 for 5 liters.

prostreet c3

Try Joe Gibbs oil

Red 71

If you have any concerns about your favorite oil being marginal why not just add a bottle of ZDDP Zinc additive and forget about it?

Just asking!!!

Go Vette

That's what I'm going to do from now on. Then I can get the brand and grade of oil I think is best for my engine and still have enough zddp.

jb78L-82

Many folks say that they can just add a bottle of ZDDP additive to whatever oil that they want to use BUT every oil company advises against that practice since it could potentially upset the base oil's additive package. IMHO, I would just pick an oil that has the correct amount of ZDDP inherent in its formulation. There seems to be many gasoline oils ( and diesel oils, if you are so inclined), both conventional and synthetic, that will fit the ZDDP requirements of a flat tappet engine, so why mess with additives? Just my 2 cents.

63mako

Some modern oils advertise they remove sludge. They do this by increasing detergent levels which also reduces the effectiveness of the ZDDP. Diesel oils have increased detergents which will reduce the effectivness of the zinc so even if it has the correct amount the protection of that amount is compromised. Also how much does the additive increase the ZDDP? Too much is a bad thing also. You would need to know the actual amount in your oil and the increase from the additive and calculate the right amount of additive to add to increase to the level your specific application needs. I still think oil testing is the way to determine the actual amount of specific additives in a given oil, not what the manufacturer advertises. It cost about $20 for an oil analysis. Moly is a great anti wear friction reducer as well as boron. A lot of the manufacturers increase these additives to somewhat compensate for reducing the zinc in modern oils. You will see "Triple Protection" listed on some of them. IMHO, Do your research and buy the right oil that is the right weight and has the correct amount of ZDDP for your cam and spring combination, intended use, RPM and clearances. Any oil that says "energy saving" "low emissions" or "triple protection" I would be suspect of the actual Zinc level.
There seems to be a couple different VR1 10W-30 racing oils. This explains the variations in test results. The standard you buy at the autozone or Napa cheap is the low zinc variety. The VR1 10W-30 racing oil that also says "not for street use" is a different formulation and has more zinc but I haven't seen any test results showing the levels advertized. Because of this obvious deception I would steer clear of them. Same with the Brad Penn 10W-30. Advertised at 1500 PPM Zinc. Find a test result anywhere confirming these levels. Their break-in oil is great and tests out.

Rich's'78

Thank you for contacting Castrol North America, The latest API SM/ILSAC GF-4 category calls for reduced Zinc and Phosphoruslevels to allow extended catalyst life in current model vehicles. Thereappear to be field issues associated with the SM/GF-4 oil's level ofanti-wear in the classic car engines known as flat tappet cam engines. Thecurrent late model passenger car engines are not flat tappet cam engines andhave no reported field issues related to the level of anti-wear chemistry inthe SM/GF-4 oils. Product Recommendations for Flat Tappet (Solid Lifter) Cam Engines:Castrol Syntec SAE 20w-50 (Recent reformulation identified by "Recommendedfor Classic Cars" text on back label) (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)(fullsynthetic) Unfortunately Castrol Syntec SAE 20w-50 is not available for purchasethrough retailers in Canada at this time, however the product may bepurchased through Castrol's online distributor at: www.proformanceusa.com Castrol does not support the use of supplementary oil additives as theseover-the-counter oil additives or engine treatments can potentially affectour oil's performance in a negative way. Castrol Consumer Relations

billla

Still sorting through stuff, folks.

As for additives, I have no plans to add that information to the thread - if you want to play chemist with your engine, that's up to you

Jon S

I'm using Pennzoil 10/40 (SM) and add 1/2 bottle (8 oz) of Red Line's Engine Oil Break-in Additive. This brings the Zinc and Phoperous levels back to (SH) levels and only costs an extra $6.00/oil change.

LT1driver

last week talked to both mobil and shell, rotella does have 1200zddp and so does mobil 15-40 and delvac 1300 15-40

billla

OK, I made a few edits and wanted to note a couple of key points.

First, the list is very specific to brand and weight - as an example, Castrol Syntec 20W-50 is on the list; this does not mean that any other Castrol oil or other grades have the purported levels of ZDDP. Read the list carefully.

Second, note that the ILSAC specification only applies to SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30 weights.

Third, there's no question there's some question about many of these oils - and I'm noting that in the list where analysis has been posted that question the levels. In the end, I'm not a lab nor an expert - I'm collecting information...so as noted, you need to make your own decisions. I've posted a link to Blackstone, and if anyone has other labs they'd like to recommend based on personal experience let me know. I will be posting some of the great links from 63Mako and others from online posting of oil analysis.

Fourth, I'm not going down the path of running break-in oil or "mixing your own" with additives. There are just too many variables, and both of these approaches were not recommended by everyone I spoke with at the oil companies.

Finally, in the end folks need to read the top post very carefully and specifically and not "interpret". I think the information is solid in terms of the specs and recommendations, and overall I think it's a good list to start from.

All good discussion and I hope this is useful and will evolve as we learn more.

doctorgene

Well Merry Christmas to myself. This Thread made me go out and buy AMSOIL 10W-40 9.25 Qt. x 6, 100% Synthetic and AMSOIL Filter SDF24 13.00 Plus Tax. Looked distributor's telephone # in ATT yellow. He even offers a service of coming to your home, changing oil & filter with disposal of old products. Have a great day. Gene

Sayfoo

For the guy who said that his WM doesn't carry the 5 qt Mobil 1 anymore-- you can order a lot of products on line and pick them up at your local WM store. Maybe the oil you're looking for.

jackson

I may be the guy who said ....

My point is how M1 15W-50 jug is Not Readily Available at several outlets; as in Not Usually On Shelf. I've always been able to Order most any oil ... if I want to order it ... I do Not want to order motor oil for passenger/commercial/farm vehicle. Other folks have their own parameters that suit them, but I consider motor oils a Staple and have a reasonable expectation to Usually find Most Staples On Shelf.

At $22/5qt jug (and when & where it's available on shelves at that price) that synthetic M1 15W-50 is probably a good value. But most conventional CJ-4 diesel oil continues to meet my needs & it's widely available on shelves. I recently noted 3 local WMs are stocking shelves with conventional MotorCraft 15W-40 CJ-4 diesel oil in 5qt (FIVE QT) jug at $11.50/5qt jug.

BTW, has anyone else actually looked-tested at WM site to order Mobil Oils ... or any motor oil for that matter ... either in-store WM pickup or WM home-delivery? G'Luck!

billla

Folks, I made a few quick updates today - I think we're 'stable' for the moment on this and the information presented is fairly complete and accurate to the best of our ability to determine.

One quick note on Mobile 1; I went to my local NAPA and they had 20W50 on the shelf...and the first two bottles said nothing, the 3rd and succeeding bottles said "For Older Engines" on the label. Pretty clear indication that things are changing and you need to pay careful attention to the labels to avoid getting old stock.

Hopefully we can at least now post a quick link to this every time the question comes up

billla

Thank you, Sir - done. Great work keeping the research coming!