They should be two differant ones. The 100 series says it is good up to 10.5 cr and the 200 series says it is good up to 12.5 cr.

I am looking to get 350 hp from the set-up.

I would like pressed fit.

 

That is because one rod has ARP 8740 rod bolt and the same rod with ARP 2000 rod bolts will handle more power.

Simple stronger rods bolts in the same rod, ARP 2000 rod bolts are expensive, look them up themselves and see how much they are then there is L19 which are even more expensive and on and on it goes.

The first less expensive rod is fine for your application

 

I will start off apologising to flyingman21 for damaging his thread. This was not my intention. Also a warning that this is a forum and anyone no matter how uneducated, misinformed or inexperienced can post so be careful who you take advice from.
I feel I have to respond to this post. I have been insulted repeatedly and want to set the record straight. I do have an issue with this guy. Members post in this section to get sound advice on things that they have limited knowledge on. Cardo0 continually posts and a lot of it particularly in this post could end up causing problems if not serious damage to the build. (look at American Psycho's pictures and posts) I feel if you really don't know what you are talking about you should not post. if you post something that is incorrect you should man up and apologise when corrected not hurl insults or call people names.

You start out with a personal attack and insult. I have not distorted anything. I have read your posts, recognized the advice and tried to help the OP make an educated,correct choice.

My thought was if there is a lot of corrosion in the cooling jackets, the build has 25 miles on it and the heater core and rad are new then the block was not hot tanked. This is the first step on any decent rebuild. If this was skipped what else was. All this info was posted before your post # 33.
In this case I would pull the pan and check a couple bearings before assuming anything. The OP did that and look what he found.
Yet nowhere did you say to check anything other than flush the block. You were advising him to clean the deck and reinstall the heads as is, flush the block and reuse the bottom end. Reread post # 33. All bad advice looking back at it. And you are right, it don't take no expert to see that

That would be a fact not an accusation. A 1969 350/350 comes with iron heads and 11 to 1 compression. Chevy originally installed forged pistons in this engine. You are advising the OP to downgrade to an inferior piston in his high DCR classic collector car with a numbers matching engine.so, again you posed incorrect information and got confrontational when attention was brought to it. I will get more into depth on this later in this post. And you did state that a 270 duration cam would not require anything better than a hyper piston. Cam duration is incidental. A hyper piston would work fine with this cam with a 7.5 dcr and not in an engine with 8.5 dcr.

That is strange, I don't see "need more Info". I see "You don't need forged pistons, I recommend KB hypers"

That is because I and others knew real close to where his compression would be with the stock 64 CC heads. 64 CC heads and a 5cc flat top piston is right at 9.8 to 1 with a stock deck height and .040 gasket. You check the head for actual CC, check everything after short block assembly, (Head gasket bore and thickness can be used to adjust compression. Example: a 4.125 bore gasket that has a compressed height of.040 would have 9.8 to 1 compression and acceptable .065 quench. A 4.125 bore gasket that has a .015 compressed thickness has a 10.4 to 1 compression ratio and prefered .040 quench) and choose a gasket thickness and cam at that point to fine tune compression that will give you correct DCR to run on pump fuel. This is a stock 1969 build. This will give you the best street performance possible running pump fuel and manners close to the original. The optimal cam intake valve closing point on the 10.4 to 1 would be 70 degrees ABDC to get right at 8.000 DCR. The optimal cam intake valve closing point on the 9.8 to 1 compression build would be 62 degrees ABDC to get right at 8.000 to 1 DCR. The first is pretty radical. the second is more streetable. LSA can be increased on either to reduce your DCR a little, improve street manners and provide a wider powerband. This will be at a cost of slightly reduced peak power numbers.

Again I disagree totally. Chevy used forged pistons in this engine originally. The OP want compression and dcr bumped up to obtain near stock performance. This requires as high of DCR as you can safely run with Iron heads and pump fuel. This requires a good cooling system, tight quench and FORGED PISTONS!!! If you would choose to use KB hypers in this numbers matching build, especially after what American Psycho posted about his build you would be a fool.

Again, I disagree. Very few original blocks can go .090 over. Look at blockmans post. Many can not safely go .060 over. I will restate my point. I would go with a hone and .030 over since it is a fresh build if possible. If not .040 should clean up fine since it only has 25 miles on it. Under no circumstance would I go any bigger than I absolutly had to with an original numbers matching block. Leave all the cylinder wall thickness you can whenever possible.
If it took 4 blocks to find one that would go .060 over how many would you check to find one that would go .090 over? This is a numbers matching block. What are the odds. This builder also uses only forged pistons. I do agree that in some instances a hyper piston is ok. The parameters of this numbers matching build is not one of those instances. I would not recommend KB hypers for any build. Just too many failures to justify saving a couple hundred dollars.

My quote was some GM crate engines use hyper pistons. I will stand by that statement. The Chevy Gen I performance crate engines are running under 10 to 1 compression with aluminum fastburn heads that can produce peak HP at around 32 degrees timing. This is totally different than a 10 to 1 vintage iron head build with optimized DCR.
Look at the BB GM performance crate engines. They use forged pistons,ALL not some ALL!!

I have defended my ideas with facts. You are the one that continuously resorts to personal attacks and insults. I have not distorted or fabricated anything. I used direct quotes from you and addressed each quote individually and clearly. I also don't understand this "He really s it and has write it in large letters in red." Maybe there is a translator out there somewhere that speaks this language.

The above is the only good advice in the string of you have posted.
I really don't like being refered to as "Wako" "the accuser" or a stalker. Personal insults and name calling are against forum rules it is also pretty childish calling people names.

 

More, more, more accusations. Now what? Like i'm going to cause serious damage to the build by helping OP accurately measure his own c.r. by himself rather than using ballpark estimates - u gott'a be joking.
I don't have to insult or personal attack anyone directly here - all have to do is post something relative and anyone can see the association is true. And the truth hurts.
Some one that can't even read the post header "Need more info" (#7) - just like the OP asks "Help me choose a piston" (#1) needs help just to read in this forum let alone post. Then more blab on c.r. when the OP dosen't have good numbers yet. Ya, a big help there.
More forged pistons whine - like everyone doesn't know there was no hypers when that original engine was built (well almost everyone).
Boring the block - again references to another "expert" - enough said.
More forged piston "noise" - is anyone talking BB's here? Well just u know who.
No we don't need a translator but maybe a moderator as my red letters for h_a_t_e_s were censored. And like all this "noise" is supposed to help the OP flyingman somehow?

My hope is the OP dosen't get talked into purchasing pistons until good numbers are available for c.r. calculations - so he can choose a good dish volume. Hang in there flyingman.

Some one posting here needs a lot more help than the OP,
cardo0

 

Have any facts available? Or just more personal attacks as usual.
You are insulting my reading skills? That is hilarious.
Reading comprehension, reading proficiency, English, spelling, sentence structure, proper word usage and correct grammar are not your strong points. Read your posts. They look like they are written by a first grader.

64 posts, 1 poster suggesting KB hypers.
Enough said.

 

All i can say is avoid pistons with oil slots rather than oil holes. I went through 2 sets of TRW pistons years ago where the oil slot developed cracks at the ends and broke the piston skirt off. The broken skirt actually rode up and down with the piston and made the damnedest awlfull clacking noise you ever heard even though the piston was still sealing properly.

 

How is soliciting help for someone an insult? Hurt an arrogant ego maybe as the truth can be painful.

How 'bout this fact: 64 posts but only 21 individual posters and only 10 of those posted a preference for forged pistons. Unless your doing arrogant ego math then my 8 posts count then as 8 prefer Hypers. Well my math is better than my written english.

cardo0

 

Actually your math is similar to your english and writing skills.
Just read your profile. Have you ever built a performance small block chevy engine? Just curious as to your actual real world experience. Reading your profile shows a top end kit put on a crate engine in your car. If you want others to respect and consider your opinion as valid you should let them know what experience, education and qualifications you have that would make your suggestion of KB hypers in this build more valid than the other 10 posters that spoke up recommending forged pistons.
Signed arrogant ego, Waco, stalker, accuser guy

 

I should have said I was looking for a block that would be good at .030 over and pass a sonic test.

Good example every one of them showed good core shift and one block had 7 cylinders that were great and one that was about .100 on the skirt side at standard bore.

We reject alot of GM blocks in performance builds and we done this long enough to see guys crack cylinders because they were 2 thin.

 

I have always kept this link in my favorites as this shows me alot with Cardoo's ability in engine building and I have shared this with alot of other engine builders and we have gotten a good laugh or two out this thread,

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/engi...clearance.html

 

Thanks. That link clears things up a little. From reading it the last time he dealt with a bottom end build was in 1989 on his GTO with forged pistons and someone else did the work. His piston to wall clearance was checked with a feeler guage. No wonder it knocked.
From his biography, "Hot Rodder Wanna Be. Attended too many car shows and races as an spectator and too few as paticipant".

I feel if you really don't know what you are talking about you should not post. if you post something that is obviously incorrect you should man up and apologise when corrected not hurl insults or call people names.

 

Cardo

I'm going over to speed talk try to match wit with Darion Morgan, after he picks my bones, leaves my carcass behind, stops laughing. I'm going back to speed talk I put a few camsafts in cars I'm going to tell Cam King how camsafts work how to design build them, after he stops laughing, I'm going over to speed talk tell CNCblocks ( probably blockman ) how to machine blocks check them out, after he stops laughing, I'm going up to Wichita Kansas to my cousins 5,000 acres east of Wichita in the flint hills he bought after he sold Air Technics an aircraft parts distribution business, from other sources I'm told after taxes each yr it brought in 12 million, also told when he sold it not only him but his kids would never have to work again, I'm going to tell him how to run his old aircraft distribution business because I worked in an auto parts distribution warehouse 35 yrs ago, after he stops laughing tells me he will buy me with his pocket change, well you get the picture.

No on second thought think i will lurk over at speed talk learn something, not even consider thinking about trying to tell my cousin how to run a business.

Tales from the crypt with nancy pelosi as gate keeper.

 

Like i need to post a resume' for the bad mouthing clown on the top of my ignore list. I don't claim to be an expert and that's why i buy books by those that are. And the books i have on the shelf tell me what i need to know - not internet hearsay. And i can see that this truth really pees the self proclaimed experts here right off. Talking with a sorry mentality that has to quote and misqoute everything i say is total waste of my time - and then he (or it) edits out his (or its) comments to hide his (its) bad mouth.

Ah yes, the parts saleman without a corvette finally shows up on the Corvette Forum. Already sold a piston set and looking to sell a block next. Guess he's never seen each individual piston honed to fit a cylinder one at a time. And yes my pistons were fit tested with long feeler gauges for the entire bore length and honed to fit an individual bore. So when it came to install them they were each marked and ready to go in its correct bore - like a piston set should be. Worked great and engine ran without piston noise after warm up - it did have piston noise on start up as expected. Like i should be imbarrashed? Someone's lack of skills is thier own loss if they are to arrogant to learn.
BTW i also have a book on my shelf that tells me how much bore a sb chevy can handle and how to optimize the bore so i know how it can be done - but by a skilled machinist. Guess the parts salesman needs to read more rather than blog on the internet all day - well maybe by boasting on the internet which cheap and used parts are bad he can sell more expensive money makers.

And finally another speedcrap fan. Like i need to talk somewhere else when i try to save a forum member here a few bucks to build a "intimitating 350 hp sb". Thx for all patronizing speedcrap advice but i'll stick with what Smokey Y., John Lingenfelter (may they rest in peace) and D. Vizard say from the books right on my self.

Kick a bag of poopie and ya just get poopie on your shoe,
cardo0

 

It fiqures you did not get it.

 

Well said as usual.

 

That post speaks volumes. The OP is trying to get 350 HP out of a 350 with 1969 components, stock iron heads, stock intake, stock exhaust, flat tappet hydraulic cam and still run on modern pump fuel. Cardo0 has no clue as to how hard that is. It takes very careful planning, good quench, at least 10 to 1 compression, proper cam selection to obtain exact optimal DCR, which will require forged pistons. You just don't get it and never will.

Every post you have made has shown more and more ignorance of basic engine design and building techniques. You just admitted your knowledge comes from reading some books you have bought. You have also proven and admitted that reading comprehension and proficancy, spelling and sentence structure are not your strong points. Books don't really help much if you don't comprehend what you are reading. As stated before "if you don't know what you are talking about you should probably not post."
Your last post was nothing but personal insults. Not a fact in the whole string of The three posters that you insulted probably have close to 100 years of actual hands on experience and any one of us has forgotten more than you ever knew.


My grandpa told me something when I was small that is still very true today and applies perfectly to this thread. "You can't fight a battle of wits with an unarmed man."

 

To the OP go for the mahl pistons

Be carefull there 63mako CardoO knows everything good ole smokey knew, John lingenfelter, D. Vizard knows all combined. when he read something about auto parts distribution warehouse that means in his mind without asking, you are the front counter man selling parts. This automotive parts distribution warehouse also had a huge machine shop, it had two cranksaft grinding machines. up front it had an alternator/starter section, section for head building, engine building section, big vat in the back, small area for rod resizing.this machine shop a little before i went to work for the distribution parts side was running two shifts building engines I hired on as the receiving clerk generally only had three to four people working for me front office did the hiring but i could do the firing, needles to say I went over in the machine shop anytime it was slow worked on stuff in the machine shop. Shop forman liked me so i could take a forged steel chevy crank home with me for $5.00 or any block I wanted $5.00. With trucks I have rebuilt owned every brand made by the USA first it was mack truck engines, then cummins, then catipillars, had a couple two stroke detriots. I have a 40 ft GMC deisel bus converted into an RV up on its top it has three A/Cs also on the roof there are three solor panels to charge the house batteries, deisel generator. I can not even describe all the fabrication work it took to convert it to a first class RV. Not going to mention my car toy playing around over the yrs. But no chance in hell i'm going over to speed talk tell Darion Morgan the man doing the development work on fords new pro stock engine he don't know squat. But now CardoO he is bad a-s I'm sure he could if only he would. He knows ole smokey.

I need to quit this cardoO is going to start thinking i don't like him
there is no more fun then seeing someone lose his cool this easy
I just can't seem to stop myself.

Tales from the crypt nancy pelosi as crypt keeper.

 

Enough I will leave this open for the OP but no more attacks. I will be in touch with some of you regarding this.

 

 

OK... moving on, I am back from my trip and ready to attack this again.

From the machine shop: one of the heads was warped so I got both of them milled. The deck on the block checked true. I had the heads CCed and they came up with 66 CC's due to the previous valve jobs.

IF, repeat IF, my calculations are correct, I get a DCR of 8.1 with the flat top Mahle's and this head gasket ( http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-8651PT/ ) I am assuming the gasket is around .04 but can't find that info anywhere. I would like to find a good piston that can get the DCR to around 9.3. From my calculations it looks like I need a +7cc dome. I am a novice to the DCR calculator so anyone feel free to correct me on my calculations. (Recap... I have a Magnum 270H with 202 heads)

I have decided to keep the rods and get the crank ground and balanced.