Please help me evaluate this 383...
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
Please help me evaluate this 383...
I am considering purchase of this, need your "expert" opinions...
Built by very reputable builder...(in biz over 30 years). I have spoken with the builder and am comfortable with the build quality.
383
514@6300/497@4500 estimated hp/tq
Aluminum Doug Herbert CNC heads 210cc, 2.02/1.60
Cam-230 degrees @0.050 and 0.537-.542 lift 1.6 ratio roller rockers
Pro Series Flat Top coated ultra lite pistons
5.7 steel I-beam rods
3.75 Scat forged steel lite weight crank
9.8:1
4 bolt mains
screw in studs
chrome fluid balancer
new flex plate
also comes with..
Professional Products Hurricane intake
Holley 750 professionally set up to match the cam card specs (whatever THAT means!)
$500 for the intake and carb...NOT on the motor..
Engine is still in the crate, the guy owes the balance to the engine builder, just needs to unload it. The engine has never left the builders shop. I have the build sheet and the weight card.
$3100 for motor. No warranty. I will need to add water pump and my tach drive HEI distributor. Says he has over $6000 in it..
WHAT should I ask the builder or seller.. I can get an answer and post it here. I'm not looking for comments regarding the lack of warranty, just on the hardware..
Thats all I know at the moment...
Thanks,
Rob
Built by very reputable builder...(in biz over 30 years). I have spoken with the builder and am comfortable with the build quality.
383
514@6300/497@4500 estimated hp/tq
Aluminum Doug Herbert CNC heads 210cc, 2.02/1.60
Cam-230 degrees @0.050 and 0.537-.542 lift 1.6 ratio roller rockers
Pro Series Flat Top coated ultra lite pistons
5.7 steel I-beam rods
3.75 Scat forged steel lite weight crank
9.8:1
4 bolt mains
screw in studs
chrome fluid balancer
new flex plate
also comes with..
Professional Products Hurricane intake
Holley 750 professionally set up to match the cam card specs (whatever THAT means!)
$500 for the intake and carb...NOT on the motor..
Engine is still in the crate, the guy owes the balance to the engine builder, just needs to unload it. The engine has never left the builders shop. I have the build sheet and the weight card.
$3100 for motor. No warranty. I will need to add water pump and my tach drive HEI distributor. Says he has over $6000 in it..
WHAT should I ask the builder or seller.. I can get an answer and post it here. I'm not looking for comments regarding the lack of warranty, just on the hardware..
Thats all I know at the moment...
Thanks,
Rob
Last edited by MakoShark72; Jan 19, 2010 at 06:15 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 774
Likes: 1
From: Round Rock Texas
I would definitely ask him for some type of warranty, even for 6 mos, you just never know. If he is a good engine builder then he should have no problem standing behind his work. I would get rid of the Hurricane intake first off. Not a big fan of that intake.
The specs look good, but without some type of warranty I would do some serious thinking. But, I like where you are headed.
The specs look good, but without some type of warranty I would do some serious thinking. But, I like where you are headed.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
I would definitely ask him for some type of warranty, even for 6 mos, you just never know. If he is a good engine builder then he should have no problem standing behind his work. I would get rid of the Hurricane intake first off. Not a big fan of that intake.
The specs look good, but without some type of warranty I would do some serious thinking. But, I like where you are headed.
The specs look good, but without some type of warranty I would do some serious thinking. But, I like where you are headed.
I asked about the warranty, he said not transferable, probably open to negotiation.
To say you "are not a big fan" of the Hurricane intake, doesnt help me one bit. Can you expound on that. Is it a POS, or what?? I'd like to know because the intake and carb ARE NOT on the motor. I really know little about intakes and brands....etc. I'd rather hear WHAT INTAKE you would recommend and WHY...
BTW, I think have no hood clearance issues..L88 hood.
To be more specific, he wants $3000 for the motor and the carb and intake are separate, about $500 for the 2... So I dont have to purchase the intake OR the carb...
Thanks,
Rob
Last edited by MakoShark72; Jan 19, 2010 at 05:49 PM.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
From: Alberta
Well......I doubt the horsepower figure is attainable. Seems way too high.............ask him about that and say you want to see the dyno sheets for his other identical engines. I am no expert, but here's what I have read so far about the GMPP ZZ383........
The stock GMPP "a la crate" ZZ383 engine is rated at 425 HP.......it has 9.6-1 compression (versus his 9.8-1 no real difference).....the GM cam is close at 222/230 duration @ .050 and .509/.528 lift with 1.5 rockers (not a 90HP +/-cam difference IMHO compared to their lift and duration).......and the GM 425 HP rating was achieved with a 750 Demon and single plane manifold (no different really from theirs).
Online message board posters and magazine writers are stating that the ZZ383 HP figure is realistic and easily obtained in real world tests, so it appears that it does not produce much more power like the ZZ454 and ZZ502 appear to when compared to their official ratings.
The stock GMPP "a la crate" ZZ383 engine is rated at 425 HP.......it has 9.6-1 compression (versus his 9.8-1 no real difference).....the GM cam is close at 222/230 duration @ .050 and .509/.528 lift with 1.5 rockers (not a 90HP +/-cam difference IMHO compared to their lift and duration).......and the GM 425 HP rating was achieved with a 750 Demon and single plane manifold (no different really from theirs).
Online message board posters and magazine writers are stating that the ZZ383 HP figure is realistic and easily obtained in real world tests, so it appears that it does not produce much more power like the ZZ454 and ZZ502 appear to when compared to their official ratings.
Last edited by 10caipirinhas; Jan 19, 2010 at 06:10 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Those HP figures are high for the heads and cam in the motor. Should be a strong 460 to 480 HP motor. I don't know much about the intake as I have not heard to much about them. I would purchase it without the carb or intake and put on your own. Decent price but why will he not warranty the motor?
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: Tigard OR
I am considering purchase of this, need your "expert" opinions...
Built by very reputable builder...(in biz over 30 years). I have spoken with the builder and am comfortable with the build quality.
383
514@6300/497@4500 estimated hp/tq
Aluminum Doug Herbert CNC heads 210cc, 2.02/1.60
Cam-230 degrees @0.050 and 0.537-.542 lift 1.6 ratio roller rockers
Pro Series Flat Top coated ultra lite pistons
5.7 steel I-beam rods
3.75 Scat forged steel lite weight crank
9.8:1
4 bolt mains
screw in studs
chrome fluid balancer
new flex plate
also comes with..
Professional Products Hurricane intake
Holley 750 professionally set up to match the cam card specs (whatever THAT means!)
Engine is still in the crate, the guy owes the balance to the engine builder, just needs to unload it. The engine has never left the builders shop. I have the build sheet and the weight card.
$3500 for all. No warranty. I will need to add water pump and my tach drive HEI distributor. Says he has over $6000 in it..
I am new at this V8 stuff, so PLEASE dont ask me any more specifics, or at least ask me WHAT I should ask the builder or seller.. I can get an answer and post it here.
Thats all I know at the moment...
Thanks,
Rob
Built by very reputable builder...(in biz over 30 years). I have spoken with the builder and am comfortable with the build quality.
383
514@6300/497@4500 estimated hp/tq
Aluminum Doug Herbert CNC heads 210cc, 2.02/1.60
Cam-230 degrees @0.050 and 0.537-.542 lift 1.6 ratio roller rockers
Pro Series Flat Top coated ultra lite pistons
5.7 steel I-beam rods
3.75 Scat forged steel lite weight crank
9.8:1
4 bolt mains
screw in studs
chrome fluid balancer
new flex plate
also comes with..
Professional Products Hurricane intake
Holley 750 professionally set up to match the cam card specs (whatever THAT means!)
Engine is still in the crate, the guy owes the balance to the engine builder, just needs to unload it. The engine has never left the builders shop. I have the build sheet and the weight card.
$3500 for all. No warranty. I will need to add water pump and my tach drive HEI distributor. Says he has over $6000 in it..
I am new at this V8 stuff, so PLEASE dont ask me any more specifics, or at least ask me WHAT I should ask the builder or seller.. I can get an answer and post it here.
Thats all I know at the moment...
Thanks,
Rob
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
Dont know, but as I said, we may not be done with that discussion yet..
I probably should not have mentioned the warranty issue, as I'm not really interested in everyone's opinions on that issue...I really want yall's thoughts on the hardware..
I've been pricing ZZ's and ebay crate motors lately. The ZZ383 is almost $6k (I've called and discussed it) and most 450 +/- hp ebays are in the mid $5's... This sounds like it could be a really good deal. Guys hurtin' and just wants to pay off the builder. He never even took possession of the motor.
I realize the ZZ383 has a warranty
Thanks!
Rob
I probably should not have mentioned the warranty issue, as I'm not really interested in everyone's opinions on that issue...I really want yall's thoughts on the hardware..
I've been pricing ZZ's and ebay crate motors lately. The ZZ383 is almost $6k (I've called and discussed it) and most 450 +/- hp ebays are in the mid $5's... This sounds like it could be a really good deal. Guys hurtin' and just wants to pay off the builder. He never even took possession of the motor.
I realize the ZZ383 has a warranty
Thanks!
Rob
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
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Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 508
Likes: 1
From: Olive Branch MS
I agree that that is stretching the horsepower there. Seriously, a 500 hp 383 isn't that easily done.
But, if you are seriously interested in this and it does look like a nice price for the whole package. You could very easily upgrade a few parts before putting it in and hit "close" to 500hp.
I might have missed it, but what type of cam is it. Roller stuff is expensive so if it is a roller you're getting a better deal, if not...again I seriously question the horsepower.
But, if you are seriously interested in this and it does look like a nice price for the whole package. You could very easily upgrade a few parts before putting it in and hit "close" to 500hp.
I might have missed it, but what type of cam is it. Roller stuff is expensive so if it is a roller you're getting a better deal, if not...again I seriously question the horsepower.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
I agree that that is stretching the horsepower there. Seriously, a 500 hp 383 isn't that easily done.
But, if you are seriously interested in this and it does look like a nice price for the whole package. You could very easily upgrade a few parts before putting it in and hit "close" to 500hp.
I might have missed it, but what type of cam is it. Roller stuff is expensive so if it is a roller you're getting a better deal, if not...again I seriously question the horsepower.
But, if you are seriously interested in this and it does look like a nice price for the whole package. You could very easily upgrade a few parts before putting it in and hit "close" to 500hp.
I might have missed it, but what type of cam is it. Roller stuff is expensive so if it is a roller you're getting a better deal, if not...again I seriously question the horsepower.
I'm not looking for a magical 500 hp. I am just reporting what the build sheet says.
Even in the mid 400's, it looks like a pretty good deal, based on what I have seen out there for sale.
Rob
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
I am thinking I may pass on this one. It may be a great deal, but I found out that the owner supplied the parts to the builder, he just assembled them and provided the block.
The owner says he bought the internals off ebay as a Scat kit. He hasnt a clue who makes the pistons.
I'm backin' away!!1
Thanks everybody! Now I am looking at 454... 450/515, but that will be for another thread! Might be time to start sourcing some brackets, etc!
Rob
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Stay away from that, he knows the cam manufacturer but won't put down which province in China the heads come from. Look at all the real 210cc heads and see how many have 2.02" intake valve. I do know the Hurricane intake comes from the Guangdong province though.
It would be interesting to hear what BLOCKMAN thinks about the clearance specs, all of them, looks like he has too many 0's in them
It would be interesting to hear what BLOCKMAN thinks about the clearance specs, all of them, looks like he has too many 0's in them
Last edited by MotorHead; Jan 19, 2010 at 09:08 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 774
Likes: 1
From: Round Rock Texas
Marz,
I asked about the warranty, he said not transferable, probably open to negotiation.
To say you "are not a big fan" of the Hurricane intake, doesnt help me one bit. Can you expound on that. Is it a POS, or what?? I'd like to know because the intake and carb ARE NOT on the motor. I really know little about intakes and brands....etc. I'd rather hear WHAT INTAKE you would recommend and WHY...
BTW, I think have no hood clearance issues..L88 hood.
To be more specific, he wants $3000 for the motor and the carb and intake are separate, about $500 for the 2... So I dont have to purchase the intake OR the carb...
Thanks,
Rob
I asked about the warranty, he said not transferable, probably open to negotiation.
To say you "are not a big fan" of the Hurricane intake, doesnt help me one bit. Can you expound on that. Is it a POS, or what?? I'd like to know because the intake and carb ARE NOT on the motor. I really know little about intakes and brands....etc. I'd rather hear WHAT INTAKE you would recommend and WHY...
BTW, I think have no hood clearance issues..L88 hood.
To be more specific, he wants $3000 for the motor and the carb and intake are separate, about $500 for the 2... So I dont have to purchase the intake OR the carb...
Thanks,
Rob
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 9
From: Gig Harbor WA
I really cant agree that EVERYTHING on ebay, or that is made overseas, is crap...
But I am passing because of his lack of paperwork..
Thanks!
Rob
Last edited by MakoShark72; Jan 19, 2010 at 10:20 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 3
From: NORTHEAST
Inch and half on the mains is a bit much
.0005 piston to wall it should run a couple of minuts and seize up
.0004 end play is a little tight
.0018 on the rod bearing is not bad for street engine
.0024 on ring gap is rather tight
I like the estimated torque and horse power
A few minutes on this engine and it should self destructed.
.0005 piston to wall it should run a couple of minuts and seize up
.0004 end play is a little tight
.0018 on the rod bearing is not bad for street engine
.0024 on ring gap is rather tight
I like the estimated torque and horse power
A few minutes on this engine and it should self destructed.
