it is looking good i cannot wait to see it when it comes back from the machine shop.

 

For those that know about what heads are good heads.......

049 heads, rebuilt at machine shop and unused.....$300.......is this a good deal?

Deja

 

If they a quality rebuild then yes, at least where I'm at.

 

If your going to bore it .060 ove its a good idea to have the block plate honed as we have found on the BBC we see a lot of cylinder distortion with the OEM blocks.

Here is a good link to look over
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58964

Good luck with your build

 

Mill those heads and give her at least a lopey cam.

 

Her is a perfect example of why blocks need to plate honed, This is one of GM 502 blocks very low miles that was using oil and down on power and you can plainly see there was very little ring seal.

 

$300 for the 049 heads is a great deal if they have been worked and are complete with new valves and springs. If they a worked and bare thats not a bad price, but I don't think I would jump on them just yet.

 

Hey Deja this is V-Rex,
OK...I got my password reset, and logged in the right way. Tried logging in with FB and had to create a new user name(V-Rex)but it didn't carry my profile over.
Anyway Deja...If you don't go with those heads, contact me as "Whitehause" (sorry for the confusion).
Your set-up looks good to me. Mine will be .030 with a new set of 2465 and either 781 or 049 heads. Unless your going to pull over 6000 RPMs on a regular basis, don't buy in to the whole "you need these rods,or this crank,or 4 bolt mains....ect."
The "thumb" or "truck" rods that are probably in that motor are fine.
You can get a Scat crank for about 239.00 on ebay. I know it's more than a regrind, but you won't have to fumble with oversize bearings, and I don't like taking more than .10 on the mains, and .20 on the rods.I'm sure some will say that taking more is no problem, but it's just my opinion.
Get a set of Forged pistons...Hypers are much more brittle, and will break apart rather than bend if something goes wrong.
Make sure the Harmonic balancer is in good shape! If in doubt,replace it.
There is a seller on E-Bay by the name of Skip white(no..it's not me) that has some very nice products at good prices.
Keep on posting...I'd like to see the progress you make.

 

I think .030 over is in the works for right now....just in case I have to ever rebuild it again. I still think descent hp can be had with .030 over and some other tweaking here an there. I have yet to decide if I am going to keep the stock crank and have it turned, or spring for a stroker crank with 4.25" bore. I have found some for roughly $300, which is about double the cost of using the stck crank, BUT I can get more hp and torque by going that way. But, that then requires that I use longer connecting rods (another added expense), and I don't really want this budget build to get out of hand. Ideally I have considered using the stock crank and rods, the 049 heads (which I presume are in the 116cc range), and getting a set of domed pistons to bump the compression up a bit. Then a good cam to match the heads setup. I would like a bit of lope to the engine, but not SO much that I have to get a huge stall converter and a roller cam. This motor has to at least have some descent street manners. But one consolation is that I do not use this car as a daily driver...so a little awnry is ok!

Deja

 

Hey Deja,
Don't assume 116 on the 049's.....most all of them are 121-122cc range. If you look on some of the casting number sites they will say 113 for the 049...This is WRONG for all but the very earliest 049 heads(pre 73 or 74 I believe). Also look for deals on cranks that come with the bearings. If you get yours re-ground, you will need another $75 or so for the bearings, so the price gap starts to close compared to a new one. The stroker idea is nice, but will take your "budget build" out of the picture. A standard built 454 with a good cam and compression bump will still smoke a lot of whats out there. You will always run into the guy that put $15,000 into his motor, and had to up-grade the entire suspension to handle it, but unless your building a drag or road course car it won't matter in the real world.
Some roller rockers, and limiting any belt drivin acc. will go a long way to helping HP. I plan to eliminate the belt water pump and go with electric pump and fans. Not only is this mod better than stock at cooling the motor, it will add 15 free HP and clean up the engine compartment. A electronic ignition is another good idea if it's in the budget. Luckily my 68 still retains the stock transistor ignition. Maybe not as good as the modern ones, but still tons better than points.

 

Look out for hidden costs. If you use your old stuff you still need to buy pistons, rings, bearings, rod bolts, If pistons are press fit you have to pay for that labor. External balance isn't as good. You need to figure balancing cost and a new balancer and a flex plate, you have to recondition your rods, you have to grind the crank, You end up with cast or hyper pistons Factory rods, factory undersize cast crank.
You can buy a complete 9.6 to 1 454 rotating assembly with balancer and flexplate on ebay for $900 shipped. Add press fiting the rods. This is cheaper than the above and all new and stronger. No way I go stock and use your parts. It is definatly more expensive in the end. Add up all the costs.
.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eagle...item5631e9efdb
There is a deal right now at CNC Motorsports. Crank is reground Eagle but a fully forged 10.2 to 1 489/496 rotating assembly is under $1600 already internally balanced with shipping costing $11. Floating rods so no expense to press pistons. This is only a few hundred more than reusing all the old stuff after figuring all the parts and machining. and you have a fully forged, internally balanced complete assembly, well matched and capable of pretty much anything you ever want to throw at it. Plus add about 50 ft lbs of torque and 50 hp with the stroker and extra compression through most of the operating range. Check on going with a smaller dome for no upcharge if 10.2 to 1 is too high.
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/produ...99&CtgID=25184

 

Hey V,

Good point with "assuming" that they are 116's. Is there a way to tell exactly what they are? I won't actually get to lay my hands on the heads until next week, but the guy selling them can get the numbers from the heads, which might help.

I may have to settle for roller tipped rockers for right now, in order to hold true to the budget build aspect. Still a step up from the stock hardware, and should gain a little extra...not a lot, but a little.

I have not really considered the electric waterpump, since I have heard that those are really designed for race-only applications, and not daily drivers. I know there has to be pro's and con's to each...and I guess a failed electric water pump would really be no different than a broken belt....but it's cheaper to replace the belts. The added HP would defintely be a bonus, not to metion the reduction of belts and parts hanging on the front of the motor. I suspect it's going to be a tight squeeze anyways. A bigger radiator will need to b acquired as well, unless anyone has had success using the stock radiator for a BB...but I think the answer to that one is "no".

Ignition-wise...I will most likely get a good MSD setup...maybe something with a rev limiter like the AL-6....but that would only be if there were any coins left over in my pocket after the dust settles!

Here's a question that I have....what is a 383 stroker worth? I have the one in my 80 that will be sold when one of these BBs go in, and have no idea what I can get out of it. A buddy of mine wants it, but as all "buddies" go, I'm sure he's going to want it for next to nothing. Not that I can blame him, but I should be able to recoup some of my rebuild expenses if I play my cards right. Any thoughts there?

Deja

 

With the setup that I am looking at.....stock specs crank, 049 heads ported and polished, small dome forged pistons, bored .030 over, roller tipped rockers, and a good cam suited to match the heads......what sort of "real world" numbers am I looking at here, so far as HP and torque go?? Any guesses?

Deja

 

I would think 450HP would not be too much of a stretch with that set-up. It's the exact same set-up I'm building, and thats about what I have figured. Of course carb selection and tuning is a big part of final numbers also.
Roller rockers aren't all that expensive....well some are, but for this application you won't need the "race ready.... 1000HP approved....your motor won't last without these ...blah blah blah" big dollar rockers. $100 to $150 should get you a set thats just fine. Same with the electric water pump..not really needed, but something I think I will do. It could always be added at a later date anyway.
I'm not sure about the 383. There are so many variables(pistons, carb, intake,heads,miles on it) I would say about half price of a new crate motor would get it sold, but if it's really low miles maybe more.

The easiest way to CC heads is to put valves and a spark plug in it,turn it chamber side up, get a piece of Plexiglas that will cover the chamber and drill a hole in the middle of it. Spread some vaseline on the top surface of the head around the chamber and press the plexi on to the vaseline to seal the chamber. Take a syringe that has CC increments and fill it with rubbing alcohol. start adding it through the hole in the plexi and make sure it doesn't leak out from under the plexi or past the valves. Write down how many cc's it takes till the chamber is full and there are no air gaps under the plexi and you have your chamber cc's.

 

.....don't put a dime in that thing!!.....shine up your new kobalt's and put em' away till you find a worthy bb........

 

If you decide to use your rods spend the money and replace the rod bolts. Be a killer to get it all back together and break one. No telling how many times the ones in there have been torqued- and they stretch a little bit everytime. Add that unknown to the normal operating stress and new bolts become really cheap.

 

And a lot more. I will repost this just in case it was missed.

Look out for hidden costs. If you use your old stuff you still need to buy pistons, rings, bearings, rod bolts, you have to recondition your rods, you have to grind the crank. If pistons are press fit you have to pay for that labor. External balance isn't as good. You need to figure balancing cost and a new balancer and a flex plate, You end up with cast or hyper pistons Factory rods, factory undersize cast crank.

You can buy a complete 9.6 to 1 454 rotating assembly with balancer and flexplate on ebay for under $900 shipped. Add press fiting the rods. This is cheaper than the above and all new and stronger. No way I go stock and use your parts. It is definatly more expensive in the end. Add up all the costs. .
http://jbrlsr.com/?aid=5336118839&bi...post1573288319

 

Deja,

LOVE what you are doing with this!!! After all, we are all the ultimate "recyclers" with our old cars!!!

I'd like to do the same thing with an old 400, build a 450-500 hp/tq motor...but the guys here have me concerned over the block. I would like the extra cubes over a 383 (dont know why, it just sounds better!!)

My car is a small block car, and I am thinking I want to keep it that way for expense and ease of install...(brackets, etc)

Keep us posted!!

Rob

 

Deja...My friend....you are no longer allowed to get all "spooky" over little things like door poppers after tackling and beating that gruesome monster.....of course you know I am jealous....I had to "settle" for a hot 383....

 

Ok, ok.....I'm busted! But in all fairness, I posted that about the door poppers BEFORE I posted this thread! And you are absolutely right....after grappling with the rusty old bastard, anything else seems like a walk in the park.

Oh, and Bats......would it make you feel any better that I have a 383 in my 80, and this motor is going in my 76....the wife's car? I feel your pain, having to "settle"!!

Deja