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Old Jun 8, 2010 | 06:44 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Mike Ward
That's the popular theory but it doesn't make much sense. Dwell is a fixed 30* on points equipped cars. Although the amount of degrees is constant, the amount of time (physical time, seconds minutes etc) varies according to engine speed. The faster the engine goes the less time the points spend 'closed'.

If 30* dwell is sufficient for the coil build a charge to fire an engine at 6,000 rpm, it is overkill for an engine at idle or any speed in between. Once the primary windings in the coil have been saturated, any additional dwell time is waste.

These engines started, idled and did everything just fine when new. If they are returned to original condition, an electronic gadget will make no difference.
Mike, I don't know what type of parts they are selling in Canada but, down south we are getting worse and worse quality products every year including ignition points. Echiln used to be made in Bradford, CN now "Hencho en Mexico" same for lots of other products. Some Vette owners like to trailer their cars to regional/national events and be judged for inaccuracies and deviations from stock. I like to drive my Vettes because they are fun, I also like them to perform at least as well if not better than when they were new.

The Ignitor WILL improve starting and lower RPM power on ANY Vette over a "Kettering ignition system" GM chose to spend some dollars in the 1960's for the K-66 transistor ignition set-up, they were optional on many Vettes (and manditory requirements on the ones I chose to own until they penny pinched in 1972.) I guess they didn't realize how good the Kettering ignition system was.

Use what your please, I know what works for me.
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Old Jun 8, 2010 | 09:45 PM
  #42  
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Ironically, today I just picked up a set of points and condensor from Napa. CS786 and RR175 respectfully. After reading the above post, I went into the garage and brought both into the house. Both are made in Mexico. I sell products that were once made in the USA and now manufactured or assembled in Mexico and the quality has gone down hill. I'll take my chance on the points and condensor and see how they perform. Visual inspection of the points indicate a hefty spring. The lubricant capsule is missing it's other half of the cover. Condensor looks like a condensor but won't know how it performs until I install it.

Texas business man Ross Perot, while running for president, warned us of this great sucking sound going to Mexico if NAFTA was passed and he was right. Companies are sending all their manufacturing business to Mexico and the quality leaves so much to be desired. I do have a question on plugs but need to see the Celtics / Lakers game.

John
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Old Jun 8, 2010 | 09:55 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Solid LT1
Mike, I don't know what type of parts they are selling in Canada but, down south we are getting worse and worse quality products every year including ignition points. Echiln used to be made in Bradford, CN now "Hencho en Mexico" same for lots of other products. Some Vette owners like to trailer their cars to regional/national events and be judged for inaccuracies and deviations from stock. I like to drive my Vettes because they are fun, I also like them to perform at least as well if not better than when they were new.

The Ignitor WILL improve starting and lower RPM power on ANY Vette over a "Kettering ignition system" GM chose to spend some dollars in the 1960's for the K-66 transistor ignition set-up, they were optional on many Vettes (and manditory requirements on the ones I chose to own until they penny pinched in 1972.) I guess they didn't realize how good the Kettering ignition system was.

Use what your please, I know what works for me.
That's wonderful news, but what's it got to do with what I said?
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Old Jun 8, 2010 | 10:15 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Mike Ward
That's the popular theory but it doesn't make much sense. Dwell is a fixed 30* on points equipped cars. Although the amount of degrees is constant, the amount of time (physical time, seconds minutes etc) varies according to engine speed. The faster the engine goes the less time the points spend 'closed'.

If 30* dwell is sufficient for the coil build a charge to fire an engine at 6,000 rpm, it is overkill for an engine at idle or any speed in between. Once the primary windings in the coil have been saturated, any additional dwell time is waste.

These engines started, idled and did everything just fine when new. If they are returned to original condition, an electronic gadget will make no difference.
Not really. Keep in mind that the plug gap kV requirement at 6000 RPM is less than it is at lower RPM (3000 RPM), due to the drop in cylinder pressure (lower VE) at high RPMs. Lower kV means less energy is required out of the coil to maintain the same gap current and arc duration. Longer dwell times are required at lower speeds to provide additional energy levels into the coil to deal with the added burden of higher arcover voltages, while still maintaining desired levels of arc current and duration. (Gap Energy = Arc voltage x Arc current x Time)
Depending on the specs of the ignition system (energy vs RPM) and the VE curve, it may or may not be overkill at lower RPMs.
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Old Jun 9, 2010 | 09:33 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 69427
Not really. Keep in mind that the plug gap kV requirement at 6000 RPM is less than it is at lower RPM (3000 RPM), due to the drop in cylinder pressure (lower VE) at high RPMs. Lower kV means less energy is required out of the coil to maintain the same gap current and arc duration. Longer dwell times are required at lower speeds to provide additional energy levels into the coil to deal with the added burden of higher arcover voltages, while still maintaining desired levels of arc current and duration. (Gap Energy = Arc voltage x Arc current x Time)
Depending on the specs of the ignition system (energy vs RPM) and the VE curve, it may or may not be overkill at lower RPMs.
There's certainly no 'gap' in your explanation. No need to 'dwell' further, but I was making the 'point' that 30* is more than sufficient 'time' to allow the stock coil to do it's job.

As to where we Canadians get our parts, we buy them at our local FLAPS like everybody else. I use Blue Streak DR3575CX just like in the OP's picture. Made in USA it says on the box. Not Hecho (or Hencho) en Mexico.
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Old Jun 9, 2010 | 09:32 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Mike Ward
That's the popular theory but it doesn't make much sense. Dwell is a fixed 30* on points equipped cars. Although the amount of degrees is constant, the amount of time (physical time, seconds minutes etc) varies according to engine speed. The faster the engine goes the less time the points spend 'closed'.

If 30* dwell is sufficient for the coil build a charge to fire an engine at 6,000 rpm, it is overkill for an engine at idle or any speed in between. Once the primary windings in the coil have been saturated, any additional dwell time is waste.

These engines started, idled and did everything just fine when new. If they are returned to original condition, an electronic gadget will make no difference.
I sold my show C6 last year (to a forum member), so I've got nothing against progress and electronics. But I got the chance to grab a '72 LT-1 A/C coupe, so I'm going back in time now. I remember how well they ran back then, on and off the drag strip (except for lack of traction with that tire "technology"), so I'm staying stock. My brother bought his '66 427/390 brand new and still has it. Its all stock original and might have had the points changed only twice by now. And it runs like its 1966.

I get my parts locally, but my financing for these cars comes from Canada. That's where I imported my wife from!
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Old Jun 10, 2010 | 01:30 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by vettes4evr


I get my parts locally, but my financing for these cars comes from Canada. That's where I imported my wife from!
I bet the VAT on that is a killer!!

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Old Jun 24, 2014 | 03:47 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Solid LT1
Lars if you really knew your Echlin ignition line you would go for the CS89 or CS7860 points sets both have higher tension springs than the CS786 points.
Got to laugh - you really stepped on your "Richard" with that line LOL

I don't worship Lars orally the way some guys do on here LOL - but I do fully recognize and acknowledge that the man "knows his stuff".
He has the intelligence and the means and the ability to evaluate components in a "lab" setting.
Lars validated what many of us believed - that quality "stock" tension points are quite adequate for the majority of us.

I just went through a big exercise building an instrumented test stand to load test coils and ballasts after my car (after 40 years) developed a cutting out problem usually initiated by lifting off the throttle at fairly low engine speed (agrees with 69427's statement of low RPM voltage / energy requirements).

After rousting up remaining USA made coils and quality (not Taiwanese Delco imitation) ballasts it turned out to be the supposed premium quality Mallory 401 condenser I installed when I built my vacuum advance distributor two years ago.

Changing the condenser was the last thing left to do before resorting to changing back to my old mechanical advance only "race" distributor that had served me so well for 35 years.

As I have subsequently read or realized - don't replace your condenser "just because" when you are replacing points.

My brand new MALLORY condenser would short out / break down ? in warm weather after extended run time. Cool days - not a problem.

In the process I discovered an excellent high quality Mercedes ballast resistor that is quite close in configuration to the original Delco ballast : with a very nice red anodized metal mounting bracket , screw terminals and 1.8 ohm cold and 2 ohm hot resistance - confirmed by bench testing.
It is sealed construction with only a single connection interface unlike the original GM Delco ballasts with three corrosion susceptible connection interfaces.

Last edited by QIK59; Jun 24, 2014 at 08:34 PM.
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