Perfect balance. Am I chasing an impossible dream? Perhaps I should be specific. I would like my car to run 13s in the 1/4 mile and get decent gas milage (17-20mpg). I also want decent midrange power for hauling out of turns. I also don't want to run premium gas. It is my thought that these goals are not mutually exclusive and are mostly a matter of gearing. By carefully choosing driveline components to match the power output charecteristics of the engine can this balance be achieved?

My thoughts so far:
Need roughly 300-350hp?
O/D transmission to allow a higher rear gear. (3.88 perhaps?)

Now I realize that fuel economy is not the reason most people buy Corvettes. Thing is, I absolutely LOVE C3s. I think they are the most distinctive, outright gorgeous cars ever built. I want to drive a C3 until I die and being 21 I hope that's a long time.

I'm likeing the Richmond 6 speed but I tend to think that with those short ratios I'll end up enjoying it too much. (rocketing through the first four every time I start moving) The TH700-R4 is an interesting choice as well but given that they both cost roughly the same I think the ROD would fit my goals better. I'm not too thrilled with the TH-400 that is in it now.

I've heard a lot of good things about the ZZ4, however... with a 10:1 comp ratio will I be needing premium gas?

I also like the idea of using my existing engine with different heads, a different cam, and possibly sequential EFI.

This is just the first post in what I'm sure will be many annoying posts about balance, power, and good old Corvette fun. Thanks for your time, any suggestions would be great!

 

Cook-
We all want our cake, and to eat it to! The first factor is what's your budget? Asking for hp and timing goals equal $$$$.
I think most of the SBC vette owners here coming from a stock base want the same envelope as you do, without breaking the bank. Random threads are posted, but it's soon easy to tell what that person is after. Follow some of the 'projects' posted here to get a feel for what someone else is going thru.
If you want the power, compression increase is a must. I run 10:1, and prem gas is also a must. Prem gas $$ is not that bad of a sacrifice for what you're getting in return.
I believe you can come very close or better to your 'wishes' with the right mods. Unfortunately, there's no one answer to 'plug' into. I think your trans will also surfice when modified. If O/D is a must, then an upgrade is due.
I start such projects with a $$ figure on paper and start listing parts and mods. It helps to see the configs and listings on paper come together! Good Luck -Rod :chevy

 

Thanks Rod. I'm thinking for the budget ~$10,000 max (engine and driveline only).

Bear in mind that this is a LOOOOOOONG term project. Perhaps over 6 years or so.

The overall plan goes something like this:

This spring:
Finish interior. (taken on a wireing project)
Wheels and Tires

Then, with no particular timeframe I'll do the following in order:
Rear gears
Engine + A/C
Transmission
Frame (some sort of preserving/protection)
Suspension
Weatherstripping
Paint/bodywork


Most of this depends on wether or not I get the promotion I'm aiming for. (Cooks don't get paid much in western PA.) If not, might be time to move to Florida. I hear that restaurants in Florida do pretty well (and treat their employees well) and as a bonus I'd get to drive the 'vette all season.

 

With good gas mileage you would pry want to go with a fuel injection setup. I have thought about it myself. haven't made a decision yet though.

I hope to be driving vettes till the day I die as well. im 23 :cheers:



[Modified by flood, 6:21 PM 3/21/2002]

 

Flood-
Food for thought: (pun intended, Cookwithvette) We didn't get vettes to drive for economy, with yer foot in it all the time, not even F.I. will get you 'good' gas milage! Good throttle responce, yes.
Keep-on-cruising -Rod :chevy

 

Cook-
Good budget you've got goin there! :D Personally, I'd do the gears and cam first. I think it'll get ya that 'seat-of-the-pants' feel you're after!
My input on your career move: Get into a real 'high-class' place, regardless of state. Money flows in these places! I know, I frequented enough of em...
Good Luck -Rod :chevy

 

Thanks guys.

The budget, yeah, I almost choked just typing that. I've learned that the wheels and tires this month are going to be over $1,000. "She's my baby and I love her." I just keep saying that to myself. It's okay though, I'm young, I'm single, why not do something crazy. :)

Flood, it's so funny that you mention Fuel Injection... It's an obsession of mine. I drive my friends nuts talking about the new conversion kits available. (they're all hardcore carb fans) Prices for these seem to have come down a few hundred dollars in the past few months, perhaps they (Holley and Edelbrock) are preparing to roll out a new generation. When I get around to it, my car will be a fuelie. You've just got to love those torque curves. :yesnod:

I understand that mileage is inversely (sp?) proportional to the weight of your foot so EFI won't help me there. Mainly I like the "trouble free" aspect of things. No waiting for the choke to open, no dead chicken rituals to get the thing tuned, excellent fuel/air metering throughout rpm range regarless of load. Ahhh, where's that drool icon?

As far as work goes, I've thought about trying to find a nice classy joint maybe over by Youngstown but the trouble is moving up in places like that can take a long time. I'm not interested in keeping cooking as a career even though I've been to culinary school. I have thought of perhaps selling my soul to :reddevil and opening a Starbucks franchise. Maybe even a Krispy Kreme. Man, we really need a drool icon. :)

 

Read my web pages. My aim has been to widen the performance and driveability curves. I have succeeded.

-Noel

 

Dude that is sooo weird. I just got done looking through your pages when I came back here to check for replies!

That is one seriously nice setup you have there. I'm really getting interested in the ROD 6. The price sucks the big one but I made a spreadsheet of final drive ratios using different transmissions and different rear gears. It's just amazing. Keeping what I think is a 3.08 rear I can still whomp out a 10.1024:1 ratio in first gear as opposed to my current 7.6384:1.

Still not sure what ratio set to go with though. I'll have a better idea once I have the engine figured out. I think I'm going to aim for 300 horses. I'm thinking heads and cam job should take me there.

Thanks for the input Noel, your site is great.

 

For what it's worth, I get 15 city, 18 highway mileage. A bit more if I remember to tweak the cruise mix on the computer in the glovebox a bit toward lean on a long highway drive. :)



-Noel

 

If you want gas mileage, Don't Don't buy a BB, I may be getting at best 7 to 9 miles to the gallon. What were people thinking back in 73

 

Check out Corvettefaq.com. They have an article on the base GMPP crate engine. I build almost this exact combo (see sig). I'm very happy with my power. I plan to do Vortec heads next for that little bit of extra Umph!. I have less than 2K in my engine, and it's ~300-320 hp and ~350-360 ft.-lb. I haven't had a chance to take it to the dyno yet. I'll probably do that in a couple of weeks. I'm not sure about gas mileage, but it isn't bad. I would guess about 15 mpg, but it's running a little fat right now. As for numbers at the track, I'll keep you posted. I'm headed to the track in the morning. Look for numbers tomorrow afternoon. :D

 

The first point would be on the premium gas... modern engines can handle the lousy gas with high compression but not these old V8s... Example... My Honda makes 9.6:1 compression ratio and I run 87 octane anywhere, anytime, any condition... The vette's 383 is 9.2:1 and it knocks hard at 34 degrees advance on the 91 octane available around here. The computer on the modern car retards the timing automatically when the engine is beginning to knock.

I choose to go with the 200 R4 tranny. The 200 has the lower overdrive ratio at 0.67 in fourth. The built model I got from BowTie Overdrive shifts kinda hard but other than that it seems to be just fine for the car. Others complain about the gear ratio gap between first and second on the 700 R4 which is why I went with the 200.

I have the 3.08 gears and they have got to go... even with the 383 the car is still slow. Plenty of power and once over 2000 rpm though. Dyno day is coming and I can report honest horsepower in the next few months (Weeks :yesnod: ). I have my mind set on a 3.73 swap. That ought to make the car slide into the 13's ET.

About gas mileage... my high mileage so far is about 23-mpg on a pure freeway trip and my lows are 15-mpg on a recent tank including creeping along in traffic, lots of stop lights, and plenty of tuning so I'm very happy with my set up.

Cost to achieve my setup... $1400 for the 383, $1300 for the tranny, and throw in another few hundred for the extras like mounts, belts, hoses, plugs, coil, module, thermal switches, and jets to fine tune everything.

Open a Starbucks or two and you'll be driving a C6!

 

73-454, Definitely no BB plans. My father has a '70 Chevelle SS with a 396 in it. Sure, just barely a BB but he only gets 8 miles to the gallon. Goes like a bat out of **ll but he NEVER drives it. Swore I'd never do that to the 'vette.

e3pres, Your setup sounds quite promising. Good luck at the track. That might be the cam I'll be going for, either that or the 260H.

Carl in LA, Wow! :eek: 383 and still 23 mpg on the highway, very impressive. Price to put it all together is impressive too! A friend of mine is building a 383 for his Camaro (project is complete opposite of mine, he'll be measuring things in gallons/mile.) and he's trying to talk me into a stroker.
The good thing about how I plan to go about things is, if I decide to stroke it later, I still can.

O/D on the Richmond is close to the 200R4 (.62) and I think my rear is a 3.08 that gives me a final drive ratio of 1.9096:1. How loooow can you go. :) My old L-48 only kicks out an 8.5:1 comp ratio so I currently don't have to worry about knocking. I suppose I could move up to midgrade gas if I needed but the prices for premium around here can be good one day and outrageous the next. No way I'm paying $2.00/gallon for gas.

C6? You sick! :jester :D

I've heard good things about AFR heads so I requested a catalog from them yesterday. It seems to me that any time I hear good things about a company's products the prices are sky-high (perhaps justly) so I'm thinking AFRs are going to be out of my league. My thoughts right now are, use the block and rotating assembly from the current engine and swap heads, cam, add EFI. Sniff sniff I smell next winter's project.

Thanks for the replies guys, this is very encouraging!! :seeya


[Modified by Cookwithvette, 1:02 AM 3/25/2002]