Help, Tie Rods Lengths????
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: St. James, NC
Help, Tie Rods Lengths????
Shouldn’t equally adjusted tie rods produce approximately the same (equal toe-in or toe-out) orientation between each wheel? I have reassembled my front suspension with each tie rod adjusted to approximately the same length. There is a significant variance between each wheel. The relay rod appears be tracking parallel and level. Are the tie rods suppose to be different lengths? Does anyone have any suggestions for the initial tie rod adjustment for a 71 C3 with power steering?
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I just went through this when doing every ball joint and rod ends. You can only get it close and then drive right to a alignment shop and tell them what settings need to be. the VB&P advanced street are pretty good.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: lexington north carolina
tie rod lenght
wHEATPJ; i HAVE REBUILT MY FRONT END ALSO, TRYED THE STRING METHOD OF ALIGNMENT, MY R-SIDE TIE ROD IS WOUND UP ALL THE WAY AND THE L-SIDE IS OUT ABOUNT AN iNCH OF THREADS. NOT TRYING TO HIJACK YOUR THREAD BUT iD LIKE ANY HELP ALSO!!!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
BINGO, with the engine running turn the car full left and then count the turn till full right...it should be 3.75 turns, damn close, count out 1/2 of them or about 1.8 turns...wheels should be straight ahead, and the pitman arm off the steering box better point straight aft, or be damn close, it should be exact...but that will get you into the ballpark....
then adjust your tie rods to make wheels conform to something more normal....
I do my own alignments here in my garage, string, and a carpenter's level is about all you really need....
along with some tables which are widely posted about....
then adjust your tie rods to make wheels conform to something more normal....
I do my own alignments here in my garage, string, and a carpenter's level is about all you really need....
along with some tables which are widely posted about....
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: St. James, NC
BINGO, with the engine running turn the car full left and then count the turn till full right...it should be 3.75 turns, damn close, count out 1/2 of them or about 1.8 turns...wheels should be straight ahead, and the pitman arm off the steering box better point straight aft, or be damn close, it should be exact...but that will get you into the ballpark....
then adjust your tie rods to make wheels conform to something more normal....
I do my own alignments here in my garage, string, and a carpenter's level is about all you really need....
along with some tables which are widely posted about....
then adjust your tie rods to make wheels conform to something more normal....
I do my own alignments here in my garage, string, and a carpenter's level is about all you really need....
along with some tables which are widely posted about....
Regardless, equal length tie-rods were install and now with the left wheel straight the right wheel is cocked significantly inward. I’m concerned that unequal tie rods were messed the steering geometry
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Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
The steering box was rebuilt by VanSteel so it should be okay, pitarm too. The steering column was found to be connected to the steering box 180 degrees out of phase when I removed it for the rebuild. I’m trying to get a handle on that…if the steering box is on- center, shouldn’t the inner tie rod orient equally with the suspension (lower control-arms)? Cranking the wheel left causes the steering knuckle contact the stops on the lower control-arm, not so going right, wheel stop but steering knuckle doesn’t contact the stop on the lower control-arm…appears to stop when the steering box reaches its full travel. I might have to open up the left tie rod to get full travel before checking center.
Regardless, equal length tie-rods were install and now with the left wheel straight the right wheel is cocked significantly inward. I’m concerned that unequal tie rods were messed the steering geometry
Regardless, equal length tie-rods were install and now with the left wheel straight the right wheel is cocked significantly inward. I’m concerned that unequal tie rods were messed the steering geometry
I forget the more or less 'proper length for the tie rods, they should be damn nearly identical with the wheels straight ahead...drop one end of the tie rods off, and center the wheels straight ahead...measure from each knuckle to the mating tie rod end center on the cross link....it's gotta be damn similar +-1/2 inch even allowing for slop in the procedure....
hope we not lost in semantics...
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa OK
Having similar problems on my 68. Indexed the steering wheel hub and shaft to steering box using the stamped hashmarks at 12 oclock, and the flat on the shaft at 12 oclock. The 68 doesn't have a flat on the steering box input shaft, but assume it is correct.
Doing all this then centering steering wheel puts the pitman arm and idler arm at approximately straight ahead.
However, the wheels are not then both straight ahead. The left wheel/tire is fairly straight, but the right is cocked toe out.
Cranking the tie rods to get both wheels approximately straight ahead results in one tie rod almost fully screwed in and the other quite far out.
??
Doing all this then centering steering wheel puts the pitman arm and idler arm at approximately straight ahead.
However, the wheels are not then both straight ahead. The left wheel/tire is fairly straight, but the right is cocked toe out.
Cranking the tie rods to get both wheels approximately straight ahead results in one tie rod almost fully screwed in and the other quite far out.
??
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Few mass production cars' chassis are square when delivered ... after road use-abuse even fewer remain square. Maybe yours is square, maybe it ain't. As said, set it close as is practical, then proceed to alignment bay.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa OK
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 409
Likes: 3
From: St. James, NC
Mine turned out to be the frame...not exactly square to say the least. Your alignment guy will be able to tell if the frame is square. I index my steering column and gear to get approximately equal length tie rods and drove it to the alignment shop. Steer box might not be exactly on its happy spot but I thought it best to give the alignment guy some adjustability. Alignment guy did a good job...drives real nice. Still bummed about the frame.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Tulsa OK
Mine turned out to be the frame...not exactly square to say the least. Your alignment guy will be able to tell if the frame is square. I index my steering column and gear to get approximately equal length tie rods and drove it to the alignment shop. Steer box might not be exactly on its happy spot but I thought it best to give the alignment guy some adjustability. Alignment guy did a good job...drives real nice. Still bummed about the frame.
The question then becomes, how much out of square can it be without problems? If it can be aligned, and I think it can, then I guess it may not be a major issue.
BTW, I had everything nicely set while wheels off the ground, but when I set it down, it got catywompus.
Can anyone point me to a good thread for alignment in your own shop?
I'd like to try before taking it to the tire shop to align
Fred
