Hiya!

I know we get a lot of these...and hate to add to all of the noise..but figured why not, I can only benefit from learning from the experienced out there.

I want to upgrade my stock 327 with all the new aftermarket available to us these days..and would appreciate any suggestions!

My budget is $2000.

I want to get as much out of that budget as possible, so will refrain from stating theoretical horsepower ratings, etc..

I already have the following:

-Edelbrock Air Gap intake with dual carbs.
-Hooker SuperComp Sidepipe headers

I will do the work myself, so save money there.

Thanks!

:edit:

I was looking at distributors the other day...and there were a million of them for the 327, and I had no idea which one to get! So many options (on Summit) and I knew too little about what was compatible..

 

do you have a manual tranny?

First off sell both of those bad items. dual quad and just for looks side pipes

 

Assuming the shortblock is sound....bang for the buck is going to be heads and cam.

Your stock distributor will be fine with either a good set of points or an electronic conversion kit. Won't be any power difference with it and a good set of Accel points will last nearly forever.

I'd look into a set of Dart, AFR or Brodix heads....even some Edelbrocks aren't bad for this HP range. Select chambers to stay in the 10.5 compression range at least.

Not sure what can you have....but a good solid flat tappet will really wake it up and let you get some RPM that a 327 needs.

If you like the 2x4's..they will work fine. I've played with them and they work pretty well.

Give us more details of what you're going to do with it.


JIM

 

these days, it's relatively cheap to stroke that 327 to 383.

in general ... most folks probably have lots more opportunity to use & enjoy low-to-mid torque than hi-revs.

 

Forgot to mention it is a Manual. It is also a DD/Cruising vehicle. I of course like to drive it hard sometimes, but nothing that will jeopardize any of its other 40+ year old parts..until I replace everything eventually.

Sorry Gkull, I will be keeping the dual quad and sidepipes.

Thanks 427Hotrod..but could I get some specific suggestions? I don't seem to know enough about what size this or that, compression, etc to get...there are many options. When I was recently looking at heads, I couldn't figure out which ones would be the right specifications..

Do I have a small journal or long/large? journal 327?

What kind of cam? Or specific cam?

I'd be happy to copy someone else's build honestly..

 

That budget buys a good set of heads and a cam. If you don't mind the car being down for a while, the best solution is to pull the top end and get real measurements for piston volume and deck height - this makes sure we don't end up guessing and getting an unstreetable - or poor-performing - CR.

A set of AFR 180 Streets would be my choice for the heads. They're available in both 64cc and 75cc, so a workable CR combination should be fairly straightforward.

A flat-tappet cam in the .500 lift range to make full use of the flow, or if the budget can stretch just a touch a retrofit roller cam which will be much more streetable - and make more power throughout the RPM range.

No question that the dual quads are a tuning issue you'll need to compensate for - hopefully you've got very small carbs on it.

 

If you have a '68 block then its a large journal 327, stroke it and add some good heads.

 

I was looking to avoid machine shops, and stick with stuff I could do myself, in my own little shop.

Thanks billa, some good stuff there. The retrofit roller cam sounds pretty cool...can you get one on Summit? If not, where?

I don't mind messin with the dual quads.

 

You can certainly easily do a top at home, but there are a few caveats. The first is not to guess on the CR - pull the existing heads and measure to ensure you don't end up with 14:1 CR....or 6:1 CR. More common than you'd think. There's an inherent assumption that the bottom end is healthy as well, it's worth a quick compression and leak-down test just to be sure.

I've done probably hundreds of these over the years, and they typicall go wrong on these two things - "guess" math or a new top on a tired shortblock.

Retrofit rollers are available from all the major cam vendors. They're basically just a set of roller rockers with link bars between them to keep them from rotating. They're expen$ive, and you have to install a cam button as well but it's not a big deal to install.

For the dual quads, the issue is just too much CFM which typically leads to poor low-speed throttle response.

 

My build is easy to replicate, runs well on pump gas, and seems to work as well as any using a stock hydraulic cam, and better than most. Pick those items that you can afford (some cost next to nothing).

But the largest power gains to be had are in the heads (especially pocket porting and a good valve job) and the exhaust system.

My combination:

331 CI, pump-friendly 9.5:1 CR
K&N 14"x4" air filter, Corvette drop base and lid
Holley 600 dp, choke horn milled, polished
1/2" Aluminum open spacer port matched to manifold, exterior polished
Edelbrock Performer RPM, port matched, exterior polished with all extraneous castings and lettering removed
Homemade lifter valley splash shield to keep hot oil off manifold bottom
Camel hump 1.94/1.50 heads hogged out to 2.02/1.60, pocket ported, port matched, pump-friendly hardened seats, 3-angle valve job
Cylinder bores clearanced to unshroud the valves
Comp Cams 1.52:1 roller-tip rockers
Crane Cam Vintage Muscle 327/350 hp cam, 222 degrees @ 0.05, 0.447" lift (with 1.50 rockers)
Doug Thorley headers, dechromed and ceramic-coated
2.5" mandral-bent exhaust (including tips), 2" cross-over just before rear axle
DynoMax stainless Ultra Flow mufflers
Millerspeed 1-1/2” Gilmer under drive belt drive system
Mallory Hyfire IV CD ignition box triggered off Accel points
Mallory high voltage chrome coil
Mallory spiral-wound coil wire
Mallory solid copper plug wires, ends soldered to wires
Champion plugs
37 degrees total ignition advance
Carter high volume fuel pump
Melling high volume oil pump
Open breathers
Polished aluminum high flow water pump
160-degree thermostat
Flex fan with polished aluminum spacer
Polished aluminum one-wire 100 amp alternator
Keisler TKO600 5-Speed
Hurst shifter
3.70:1 positraction
225/60/15 Firestone Firehawk SZ50s on 7”-wide Western 30-spoke Turbine Wheels

Dyno pulls prior to the addition of the Millerspeed Gilmer belt system and some "clean-up" at the carburetor/air cleaner base allowing a smoother flow through this area.

 

todd,
on your build you put alot of effort it seems into the heads , but left alot on the table with your cam choice ??

 

I noticed that as well...

 

I would do 180cc or even the 195 AFR Eliminator heads ($1400), Solid flat tappet cam custom spec'd for that engine/carbs combo (probably $300 with lifters), a good set of full roller rockers ($200) and some good hardened pushrods of the correct length ($150).......Head gaskets, materials, fluids etc, ( another $100)........so for $2150 and get an honest 50-80hp and gain another 1000-1500 rpms of rev ability.....

Ofcourse a roller cam would add quite a bit more power and a ton more reliability but......for a $2k budget, that's the best bang for the buck I can come up with.....

Remember 327s need to rev so feed the little bastard and give it a valve train that let's it rev...

 

another thing you might try is post in the wanted section here on the forums, I have picked up some good parts for a fair price i.e.....
set of solid roller lifters like new for $ 150

 

Great advice ajrothm!

So when getting the heads or cam, I need to find out what my CR is? Do they vary that much for a stock 327 in '68?

Would going to an MSD ignition box and distro help at all?

 

Engine was built ~25 years ago. I didn't want to adjust solids and there were no hydraulic rollers (and far smaller choice) back then. Dual patterns were almost unheard of.

Besides, I built the car to drive and it still has great manners (was a regular 300 hp engine).

For example, the mechanics were a couple drag racers with a shop (Chevy HQ). They were a male/female team who drag raced every weekend. He drove a '66 Vette coupe on a 10.90 index and her in an econodragster and a '68 Vette roadster. They asked if I wanted to have the heads cut back to run 1.60:1 full-roller rockers and I declined. Similarly, they asked if I wanted cut-outs/block-off plates at the headers and I declined. Now I sort of regret it as the car is less of a driver than it was. But money was far tighter in those days too and the heads were only $300 for all that work back then. The total rebuild was ~$3,000 parts and labor back then. We know that the biggest gains are in the heads so that's where the money went. I won the headers in a raffle and could never have afforded them at the time.

But I know I left some hp "on the table."

 

How would I find out what my safe or max RPM range would be? I know that if I get an MSD 6AL or whatever, I can set the rev limiter...

 

Am I on the right track here?

Never seen one of these...are they useful?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-90131/

Had pretty much these parts picked out separate...and found this kit...any good?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-K314-500-450/

MSD 6AL with low profile distributor.

What about these?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL12-432-8/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K12-443-8/

And what about this thing (separate from budget):

http://www.shopatron.com/products/pr...24.0.0.0.0.0.0

 

Yes.
A CD box starts adding some power around 4500 RPM where a stock coil starts to fall off. A quality aftermarket HEI will go to about 5500, and only needs a CD to go with it if you're consistently turning beyond that.

As an aside, there's no reason for roller rockers here unless you're planning to turn this thing consistently past 6K RPM.

 

There's no reason for a rev kit unless you're counting on turning > 6K RPM regularly.

I personally don't see those TFS heads as being a great fit for this engine. With 195cc runners, they flow 7-10 CFM less than the AFR 180's do. This is really the measurement of a head - the highest flow from the smallest runner.

As for the cam choice, you need to slow down a bit. Pick the heads for power potential and budget, provide information on trans and gears and then pick the cam to match the heads, drivetrain and usage.