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Is the MSD 6AL needed?

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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 07:27 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by STODD
I installed summits version a few weeks back. I do notice a quicker start, but I also notice that it miss fires in midrange real bad. It is to the point where it makes the car jerky, even at 55 at 3500 rpm. When I go wide open it is fine, and it don't seem to skip a beat.
The main reason I bought it was the rev limiter, I have issues with 2nd gear and don't want to scatter this new motor. I am thinking gkull was right and I now have too much juice for my 8mm accel wires. Running it in the dark tonight I could see the plugs glowing some and a pretty bright light out of my HEI where the + and- wires connect to the coil.
It also makes a racket inside the distriburtor, I heard the MSD boxes were loud, my box is quiet, but the distributor sounds like it has a mini gear drive in it!! It is a new distributor and I took it back apart and found nothing obviosly wrong.
I was impressed that it was made in the USA, I wonder if the MSD unit is.
Any other opinions on the mid range misfire?
Motor is a S/B 406 with a com 306s-10-.306--.555 solid flat tappet and has a grumpy idle anyway, but this mid range thing is new since installing the box.
If all you did was to install the Summit box and now you have all these problems I would remove it and see if they go away.

You problem could also be too large of plug gap. Close them up to .035 and see if the arcing goes away.

You need quality spiral core plug wires of low ohm numbers and don't use resister plugs.

IMO - In a well tuned motor multi spark units are uneeded. In a neglected motor it might bring a little life below 3000 rpm. But it's like most snake oil. If you believe that it adds all kinds of new found power your mind will convince you that it really does.

As for me I use my Crane digital for its sequential rev limiter. It is so nice while out running around the track to be able to have your foot on the floor and have the motor protected driving in the rev limiter right into the braking zone.
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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 06:37 PM
  #22  
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Thanks gkull,
It seemed fine at the strip, but for a cruise it stunk. Not sure if it is getting worse or not. Hoping to hit the strip again this Friday night, so I need to order some wires or disconnect it, but like you, I need that rev limiter.
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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 08:04 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
And yet everyone has one

To the original poster NO
:iagre e: got one also... left me stranded twice now... got "new and improved" unit from Summit still going...


Originally Posted by gerry72
Is there an advantage? Notwithstanding other comments, yes, there can be. A piston engine will always suffer from cyclic variation. This means that conditions in the cylinder are not entirely consistent from combustion event to combustion event. One thing that does occur is sporadic and random misfire. This is usually due to a mixture vaporization anomaly. This isn't something you'd easily notice, like a consistent misfire. What a multi-sparker does is to keep hitting the plug in hopes of recovering a successful combustion event. It can give you a smoother idle.

But the 6AL is pretty dumb and the digital boxes are not much smarter. It hits the plug whether it has fired or not. And as noted above, it does this only below 3k rpm. There are other more sophisticated systems. Jacobs, before they went south of the border and started building less stellar products, did make a fairly expensive system that would send a follow up pulse to the plug to sense the ionization in the chamber and if it sensed combustion did not occur, would hit the plug again.

The other thing the 6AL (and other CD ignitions do) is instead of building the voltage rise in the coil through induction, the coil is just a transformer where the capacitor discharges into the coil where voltage is stepped up. This changes the ignition characteristics from the inductive's longer spark duration to the capactives higher rise and potential voltage. In most cases, this is really irrelevant. If you have a difficult to fire mixture, it can make a difference.

But if your engine seems to be running fine with what you have, there's not really anything to gain by going to MSD's or anyone elses box.
,,,, i think mine seems to start easier on cold days
Originally Posted by snoopykissedlucy
I say put it in or give it to me!

Again, wives like easy to start and evenly idling cars. Us guys don't mind a rough idle, and actually prefer it....

The MSD will idle smoother than a stock..........based on my personal experience.
....
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Old Aug 17, 2010 | 12:21 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by STODD
Thanks gkull,
It seemed fine at the strip, but for a cruise it stunk. Not sure if it is getting worse or not. Hoping to hit the strip again this Friday night, so I need to order some wires or disconnect it, but like you, I need that rev limiter.
I looked up your cam and it is IMO in the out of bounds range for a 406ci street car. Its power would not even come in till higher rpm and would require 11 ish compression
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Old Aug 17, 2010 | 07:41 AM
  #25  
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Typically, a street car don't need a cd box like msd 6.
But if the cam is too big ... there'll be too little vacuum ... and it'll probably tend to run rich in some range(s) ... then a hot ignition might just help put a bandaid on it ... but won't cure it.
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Old Aug 18, 2010 | 06:29 PM
  #26  
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I copied a 383 build out of hot rod with that cam, they made about 570 hp with better heads at 6500. My heads are the 200cc brodix IK copies from summit. When I found the 400 I decided to go to 406, at at 9.5 compression, they ran flat tops at 10 something on the 383. It is amazing how much the .125 bore can change compression, I had to go dished, I would have been around 12 with flat tops. I did go with the 6" rods and 3.75 stroke, all forged.
Right now I have the rev limiter set at 6500, I doubt with the dart dual plane I make much power over that, I want to get it on a chasis dyno.
My Iraq war vet son gave me those heads for fathers day so I gotta use them!!
I am pretty sure it is the wires, gonna pick up some talors tomorrow, hoping to go back to the strip on Friday night.

Thanks for the input.
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Old Aug 21, 2010 | 01:33 PM
  #27  
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Gkull I think you were right on the cam, that and my factory tack is reading about 500 high. Went to the track last night and it ran great. I did change the wires but see no differance except worse radio feed back. My buddy that degreed the cam for me was there, he thought it ran good.
Thanks,
Steve
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Old Aug 21, 2010 | 01:56 PM
  #28  
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I have the biggest problem with the Proform HEI description, Chinese sourced parts don't belong in a daily driver, that HEI stands a good chance of leaving you stranded somewhere. I would at least buy a new USA made module for that distibutor.
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